Would you vote the same as before?
I feel we were conned, ?350 million extra a week for the NHS swung it for me, which was a blatant lie, looking at the mess that we are currently in would you change how you voted?
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Would you vote the same as before?
I feel we were conned, ?350 million extra a week for the NHS swung it for me, which was a blatant lie, looking at the mess that we are currently in would you change how you voted?
Too late now. We are all fucked.
Imo, until we are actually out, we won't really know the implications as there is a lot of spin from both sides.
I think the worst thing that could have been done was getting a remain supporter to sort out Brexit, it feels like she'll just rush through throwing cash at it and then turn around when complaints are made and say it was voted for.
I never voted as I couldn't take what either party was saying was the truth and I still feel like that now, when I listen to Nigel Farage on LBC I know he's just spouting what will make a Brexit look good and the same goes when listening to a remainer.
I have to admit my opinion could be biased, but from I remember the remain campaign was fairly reasonable, if anything they didn't even make their case strongly enough, whilst the leave campaign was virtually entirely "spin".
Actually I'm sorry to even use the word spin. The leave campaign was mainly a bunch of massive sensationist lies.
I will say though this is merely my opinion and I'm happy to learn if anyone can show my opinion to be wrong.
The final comment I will make is that despite my hatred and blame of the lying cunt politicians, we as the public should be working harder. E.g. for every mention of cuts the the NHS the public should have got together in numbers and told the government to use some of the 350mil towards improvements instead of closures otherwise there will be riots that make 2011 look like a walk in the park.
I was remain and still am, I respect the outcome of the vote but I find it frustrating that the leave campaign were able to spread such blatant lies so publicly and the referendum was still valid. I think we should have been presented with the exit deal and as good an idea as possible of the consequences and should have voted on that, as it stands voting leave was a gamble and I don't see/hear any positivity that seems to carry any merit.
Weak leadership doesn't help, not sure if May will stay in power to take the bullet or if someone will make their move sooner.
The same for me, out.
Anything that reduces the amount of pigs with their snouts in the trough is a good thing, how many layers of government do we need.
To be fair regarding above comments. In the months after in my opinion it was revealed just as much lying on both sides to be fair.
As you would expect I suppose.
I'm still big Dunc
Oooooooot
Sent from my Philips Cellnet using a 12c508
I voted to remain and I am even more convinced now.
There may be an argument for leaving the EU at some point in the future, but that time is certainly not now and not with this Tory mob. The daily levels of incompetence are staggering, and the self deprecating joke by Davis that you don't have to be smart to do his job fell flat on its face.... because its true.
What truly sickens me is that Tory infighting and cronyism is what is driving the future of our nation, not the interests of its citizens. What happened to forming broad coalitions (Lib/Lab/SNP) to properly represent us?
I really should have put don't care. Because I have simply given up really thinking too much about it. I can't see the need to be honest. There will be no more cash for services (Even forgetting the figure on the bus...the implication was that we would "save" money by being out of the EU. Not from where I'm sitting we won't. It seems that anyone who may realistically be in a position to influence brexit are going to go though with it but with the inevitable outcome being "same". Free movement of workers (probably backed by some type of application/sponsor from a company in the UK), There will be free movement of goods and services and probably free movement of cash.....All of this will "cost" us roughly the same as what it would have had we never had the vote - the EU will just work out how much the shortfall is and present the UK with the new "associate membership" fee. Nobody win's nobody looses, face saving exercise all round. So that makes the vote a joke and a waste of time and money...because apart from "no change" the whole exercise is going to cost billions to pay for all the negotiations and lawyers/civil servants in their thousands are looking at guaranteed well paid tax payer funded work for the next 20 years imho.
Interestingly from the small sample of the poll here it kind of looks like we have an "entrenched" situation and as a remainer I can accept that, just as I accept that the leavers are as much entrenched in their own view.
The whole thing is a cluster fuck and I personally am more interested in the fact that when I look around town of an evening I see many many more people sleeping rough in one of the most prosperous parts of the country (Canterbury). I'm actually quite proud of the work being done by people from all walks life to raise cash and donate food and clothing and pushing the council to open up emergency shelter....I mean cmon it's bloody freezing out there !!
That's what politics is about for me. It is surely the 1st job of government to ensure it's citizens are fed,educated and sheltered. Without those 3 things you might as well turn out the lights.
Putting aside whether you wanted Bremain or Brexit there is one fact in all of this that we can agree on and that is that the Tories have spectacularly fucked the entire process up from the start and they will continue to do so till the very end.
This current government is the biggest clusterfuck I have ever seen in power.
Completely agree but I doubt it would have been different with a different party in power, it would have just been a different list of fuckups.
From what I have seen over the years if anyone truly believes any of them are looking out for YOUR best interests above their own, you are deluding yourselves.
I voted out and would still vote out, it seems to me that we are being held to ransom by the EU and the more they demand the more out I want to be out ! ?50 Billion before they even consider negotiating boils my piss ! useless government should be telling them to fuck off, just think what ?50 Billion can do here at home for starters .... no trade deals, what a load of bollocks, do you honestly think that Germany would want that, the UK is one of it's biggest importers of there cars, read in the news today something about paying there refugees to leave there country now, the same refugees that they opened there borders and welcomed, what a joke.
None of them wanted it as they knew it was a poisoned chalice, no remainer, leaver, Tory or Labour party could ever come out the other end of Brexit without being called a totally useless cunt or bunch of cunts by all sides this is why they sit on their hands as May fucks up time and time again, there is no one in the party who wants the job 'NOW' they want it after everything is fucked and running round saying well it's fucked coz she is a remainer is crap, it's fucked because it was always going to be fucked.
I said there would be a huge bill to pay when they left in the brexit thread before we left but of course that was bollox, of course we are being held to ransom what else do you expect them to do as a collective they have a fraction of what the UK has to lose, I don't think Germany or many of the other countries want a no deal but the trade amounts any single country has to lose is tiny compared to the UK which although it sounds great to just tell them to fuck off we would fall into a depression that would make the 1920's look like a holiday at Butlins as it would with any country that suddenly just lost nearly half it's trade the same as it would with any business. We are already fucked just how fucked we are has yet to be agreed.
The EU would still want trade deals with us regardless, there economy's need us, just as we need them, but they seem to be holding the cards and were folding, just like a game of poker !. I'm sure if we walked away they would eventually want to come to some consessions with trade, Oh and lets not forget the trade we can eventually do with the world, although I dare say somewhere along the negotiations we will be told that not allowed and this useless government will accept this and all the other shite the EU comes up with ........
Just my view
I agree entirely but it seems stupid having a remainer like May in charge, she was against leaving which hardly inspires any confidence, it's a bit like putting Mourinho in charge of City for a few months, just so United can catch up.
As GTI posted 'What happened to forming broad coalitions (Lib/Lab/SNP) to properly represent us?'
All this talk about trade deals, we don't have one with China and yet we order, pay and then most of the time receive our cheap, sometimes tacky and more than not dangerous goods from China, is a trade deal really that important if we can do this without one arranged with a superpower country like China?
Once we leave the EU in 2019 we can then strike a deal with China which should hopefully mean even more cheap tack at a discount price surely?
The EU economy would struggle without us no doubt and I have always said the best you could hope for post Brexit was a break up of the EU but a lot of the trade with the UK would be soaked up internally with Germany being the biggest loser they are also the richest member and able to withstand it and no doubt make up a lot of the loss through the moving of businesses and financial services from the UK to both France, Germany and a lesser part other EU member countries. I doubt British people will stop buying German cars so although the trade would reduce people would just have to pay the import duty if we had no deal and the 'the trade we can eventually do with the world' I have no idea what we are going to sell them and probably a moot point as our credit rating would go to junk before any trade deal was signed as it's already been downgraded again we would not be able to meet the interest on existing loads never mind borrow more.
I just don't think you had anyone willing and or able to do the job, you have a dick like David Davis who is stupid enough to voice in public that it was a agreement to pay the money not legally binding if we decided to walk and not anticipate them coming back and saying actually sign this before we move forward so it's now legally binding being considered for the job say's it all. No idea with the coalitions.
We need to remember that the EU is 28 independent countries, each with the same voting power. If Slovenia, Croatia, Poland, Estonia etc.. decide to say 'No' then there is fuck all that Germany, France, Italy etc.. can do about it, regardless of how many cars or tons of cheese they sell us. All it took to stall the Canada trade deal was a province in Belgium saying 'No'.
In the grand scheme of things we no longer matter, they've moved on and are planning everything based on a 2019 exit.
To be honest I now think there is no choice but to leave now even if they announced a u turn/second referendum etc
If we were to go back now the EU would continue to punish the UK anyway and it would no longer have a voice even within the EU as a member.
They fucking hate us with a passion now for rocking the EU boat and an example will be made of us in or out.
Who was it who called the vote again ? Bet he feels a proper cunt right now.
Edit:
This all reminds me of playing Civilization VI whilst pissed, you suddenly realize you are losing, badly then you see you have no money in the treasury because you were too much of a pleb to sort out any trade convoys, you also have fuck all of an internal economy or infrastructure because you were too busy trying to attack cities with a bunch of pikemen and archers.
The most hated man within the EU club is Farage ! We need him to lead and fight for the UK in the negotiations, not that useless bitch and the rest of her fuckwits !
Interesting to see and I know it's early yet in this poll, but the still vote to leave is ahead and the change my vote to remain is currently only 1 despite all the doom and gloom that's constantly bantered around .......
I say this in a light hearted internet voice....But some of you brexitiers are nuts lol. Let's say the EU as a group say balls to them brits No deal !! So wto - both sides loose. The UK has 43% (ish) of her exports to the EU basically become more expensive so you could bank on other members of the EU making the "product or service" cheaper thus costing the Uk in trade and/or jobs.
So for our part we charge THEM wto rates as is the norm.....THEY produce stuff that we don't/can't or certainly at the moment are in no position to produce....so our prices rise while we secure cheaper stuff from elsewhere....That will HURT. Remember we export the 43% they export about 2% give or take. Lets just say the EU think ok we have 1 trillion in reserves.....if we just totally exclude the UK trade wise for the next 5 year AND nudge other countries that they "may" find trading within the EU difficult if they give the UK a trade deal......2% V 43%....who's going to feel the pinch more ? Who's going to be the biggest boy in the playground ? Who will the USA want to deal with ? Canada ? China ? As far as I can see the EU isa bigger market place than the UK especially a UK without ANY access to the EU market.
Now I am british and writing this stuff depresses the shit out of me BUT if I were an influential european then yes I would be well up for cutting all sully lines to the uk with a long term view of getting the UK back into line in the long term future. Funny enough even as a remain voting brit I would not be happy with that outcome at all.
When he wins enough votes to win a single seat in parliament then he will possibly be in a position to speak with a modicum of power. He has tried a few times now....Everyone calls Corbyn a cun't ect...but he is a multi time elected cunt by the majority of his constituents....unlike Farage or UKIP in general who have never won even one seat in the UK parliament. TBH it's beyond me how or why they get any airtime.....if it went by vote representation then we should be seeing the greens get about 20 hours a week tv coverage when you see how much UKIP and farage get.....But then I'm biased coz I think he's a pleb lol.
I'm quite surprised by the Poll result so far. All be it only a snap shot of DF members I would have guessed remain would have won a second vote given what we we've seen so far. Vince Cable and his Exit From Brexit group need to do more if they cant even swing a DF poll.
I voted leave, and would do so again. When looking past all of the lies, posturing and misdirection, it still feels like the right decision to me.
What I have been surprised by, is the sheer magnitude of incompetence that the government has shown during the process!
That said, watching the Tories tear themselves apart has been massive fun to watch. :laugh:
I looked at that poll twice and i cannot believe the current standings.
So in Canada, the arent too many rights for people compared to Europe but still a lot better then America.
Couple of quick examples -
- Most employers (regardless of industry) give you 2 weeks annual leave, and then (depending on your employer) you get an extra week after 3 to 5 years. I have 2 techs under me who have been here 19 and 20 years who still get 2 weeks a year.
- Employers can pay you by cheque and not direct deposit leaving it on you to figure out how you are going to deposit it
- You are given 3-5 sick days a year, anymore you have to use your annual leave days or not get paid
- If you work in IT, you are not sanctioned to stop at 37.5 hours a week. You will be expected to do unpaid overtime (i did this for 2 years straight both as a tech and a manager)
- 99% of employers have mandatory overtime (paid or not is upto the employer). Don't wanna do it? Don't come in tomorrow.
- The big ISPS collude together to fix cable and tv prices (never been challenged by the Canadian government)
- You can be fired on the spot and depending on the circumstances you would be ineligible for the Canadian equivalent of job seekers allowance
- The Canadian airlines also don't compete against each other. It is cheaper for me to fly to England on a hour 7 hour flight then a local 5 hour flight to Vancouver
- Banks do not compete against each other. I pay for the privilege to use a bank account. I would use a credit union but good lucking find a cash machine without being bummed on fees (no Link equivalent here)
- Politics are super corrupt. You guys have not seen shit yet.
You guys don't realize how good you have it with the E.U. Once your out, be ready to loose a lot off the perks, say good bye to foreign investment, competition, legislation and watch the price for everything to rise.
Yeah you get a little bit of sovereignty but Britain is not the big player it was back in the days of the empire (which they also lost) . Get the fuck out of that country before its too late.
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Yeah you get a little bit of sovereignty but Britain is not the big player it was back in the days of the empire (which they also lost) . Get the fuck out of that country before its too late.
And THIS was the main reason why I voted remain.
Wow a good percentage here are leavers and still are.
Kudos for sticking to your guns. I started as a Leaver changed my mind 10 times then decided I could not vote in good faith due to the lies from both sides.
It is bullshit to attempt to claim that the leave vote were the bullshitters as the remoaners attempt at every opportunity.
Be honest. Bullshit was spouted from every politician on either side.
Where do I stand now. Just as unsure as during the actual vote. Well during the vote I swung from leave to remain but now after everything I am seeing from the process I would probably sway leave (not because it is a good idea). The EU is a fucking joke.
Yes we should have stayed imho but I am spitting the dummy right now over the way these ultra privileged cunts are behaving.
Thing is even if/when we leave do you REALLY think it will trouble or cost the so called "elite" a shiny penny ? I don't think so, In fact I would gamble that the so called elite have already made whatever arrangements that are required to maintain "their status quo" - Im not even on about soft brexit or hard brexit or any of that shit......What does Brexit do to the elite ? Less than fuck all........What will it do to the plebs (That's us lol).....Well we will find prices rising and wages stagnating and all the while the very problems we hated and blamed the eu for will continue to exist (Housing, Wages, NHS, Education)....it's all still their and they are all still huge issues - Neither staying in nor leaving are going to help any of that shit.Quote:
Yes we should have stayed imho but I am spitting the dummy right now over the way these ultra privileged cunts are behaving.
Funny enough NI who voted leave may well end up the most prosperous area of the UK if they can play their cards right.
Here is the vote that we did just before the referendum in 2016:
http://digital-forums.com/showthread...ht=negotiation
When you take out 'undecided' and 'don't give a toss', the final result was:
Leave - 77%
Remain - 23%
(No. of votes - 62)
The poll in this current thread, when you take out 'undecided' and 'don't give a toss', the current (30/12/17) result is:
Leave - 57%
Remain - 43%
(No. of votes - 54)
I had forgotten that the DF vote was massively in favour of leave last year. So this current poll actually shows a big swing towards remain.
Or, people voted differently in the referendum to what they said they would, as this current poll should capture those people who have changed their vote.
Or 60 people isn't a big enough sample size to make conclusions :laugh: