Private parking ticket

Thread: Private parking ticket

  1. MHP's Avatar

    MHP said:

    Default Private parking ticket

    A few us have been going round a mates house every 2 weeks for a game of poker since November last year. He lives on a private estate that has parking regulations enforced by a private parking company. The prohibited parking times are 9am to 6:30pm. We rock up about 7:30pm so no worries. In January I got a ticket at 10:30 pm. The signs say no ‘trades man’s vehicles’ after 6:30pm and I drive a VW Transporter… I contested and won the appeal stating that I’m not a trades man and the vehicle was not being used for trade. They gave me another ticket at the end of February, which I also contested and won. This morning I get into work and find a letter addressed to my company. Inside is a ‘Notice to the registered keeper’ for the same offence at the beginning of April. The images on the notice show my vehicle parked, but this time with no parking ticket on the windscreen. I’m guessing they are trying to prove that the vehicle is registered to a company and therefore a trades mans vehicle. Do I contest as I have done before or take a different approach?
     
  2. piggzy's Avatar

    piggzy said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    I would do as you did before... They realise they are losing and are trying a different approach. Test them.
     
  3. riget's Avatar

    riget said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Bin it.
     
  4. maltloaf's Avatar

    maltloaf said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Don't respond. Don't even acknowledge that you even received it. It's mostly unenforceable as long as it's truly private land.
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  5. Rhinoz's Avatar

    Rhinoz said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    @ Maltloaf

    I read this at the start of the month......


    Britain's biggest parking fine: woman given £24.5k fine as judge scotches online myth that private parking fines are unenforceable.

    It is in Scotland tho......

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    Last edited by Rhinoz; 26th April 2017 at 06:14 AM.
     
  6. evilsatan's Avatar

    evilsatan said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    JonEP is the man to answer this, he is helped me in the past. If you have a good case for appeal then I think he told me to appeal and not ignore anymore as a precedent was set but wait and see what he says.

    An 'activist' type on my Facebook sends letters back to say they can have the details of the driver but first must pay and administration fee, I'm not sure if that's what he does for parking tickets but seems to work and he tends to know his stuff when it comes to bailiffs, fines etc.

     
  7. Bald Bouncer's Avatar

    Bald Bouncer said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinoz View Post
    @ Maltloaf

    I read this at the start of the month......


    Britain's biggest parking fine: woman given £24.5k fine as judge scotches online myth that private parking fines are unenforceable.

    It is in Scotland tho......

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    I read up on the case at the time it was quite interesting, I think the Judge made the ruling based on a few other things mainly being she was fully aware of the claims she did not have the right to park there, had been informed of this and continued to do so and ignored them, had not challenged a single fine, it was a residential area with a permit scheme, she had been offered the chance to buy a permit but continued to park there in 'protest' one of the main ones I think and that parking charges were illegal and unenforceable in Scotland which will have got the judges back up as they are not as long as they can establish you have formed a contract.

    The case had quite a bit to it none least the arrogance of the woman which I think was her downfall, not sure it's a precedent and courts will rubber stamp other claim cases by parking firms but they will without doubt use that case as a threat when seeking payment.

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  8. DejaVu's Avatar

    DejaVu said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Targeting tradesman is bollox and I hear a lot about this being an Estate Agent, especially with the copious amounts of new build properties going up all over the place!

    One fella in particular purchased a £600k house and owned a brand new Silver Vivaro (16 plate), he tucked it down the side of his detached property and still received complaints... ONLY FROM THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY!
    ... and he was one of the sparkies that the development company employed ON THE SITE, knew he had a new van when they sold it to him, knew he was self-employed, new the van was going to left at the property, but only bought it up as an issue after he had completed on the property!

    Work men who built the houses are being penalised if they want to live there by the firms implementing a Restrictive Covenant which prevents the parking of caravans, boats and commercial vehicles into the deeds of these properties.
    This is not new and if you live in a street built in the 70's or 80's, chances are it is also on YOUR deeds too, but because it's a older development, the restriction gets ignored and rightly so IMO!

    It's all good to have these vans on-site when they are going up, but apparently the building firms think it will 'upset the neighbours' as an eye-sore on new developments - who cares, your fucking house wouldn't even be there if it weren't for these people, GET OVER YOURSELF!

    Along with this crock of shit recently in Colchester this topic really does boil my piss!
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    Last edited by DejaVu; 26th April 2017 at 09:10 AM.

     
  9. JonEp's Avatar

    JonEp said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Quote Originally Posted by MHP View Post
    A few us have been going round a mates house every 2 weeks for a game of poker since November last year. He lives on a private estate that has parking regulations enforced by a private parking company. The prohibited parking times are 9am to 6:30pm. We rock up about 7:30pm so no worries. In January I got a ticket at 10:30 pm. The signs say no ‘trades man’s vehicles’ after 6:30pm and I drive a VW Transporter… I contested and won the appeal stating that I’m not a trades man and the vehicle was not being used for trade. They gave me another ticket at the end of February, which I also contested and won. This morning I get into work and find a letter addressed to my company. Inside is a ‘Notice to the registered keeper’ for the same offence at the beginning of April. The images on the notice show my vehicle parked, but this time with no parking ticket on the windscreen. I’m guessing they are trying to prove that the vehicle is registered to a company and therefore a trades mans vehicle. Do I contest as I have done before or take a different approach?
    Can you post a picture of the sign on the car park, the tickets you received and the notice to the registered keepers with the personal stuff blanked out or send them via DM ?

    As for the Scottish case, its worth pointing out their Laws some times differ to ours.
     
  10. Over Carl's Avatar

    Over Carl said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Quote Originally Posted by MHP View Post
    A few us have been going round a mates house every 2 weeks for a game of poker since November last year. He lives on a private estate that has parking regulations enforced by a private parking company. The prohibited parking times are 9am to 6:30pm. We rock up about 7:30pm so no worries. In January I got a ticket at 10:30 pm. The signs say no ‘trades man’s vehicles’ after 6:30pm and I drive a VW Transporter… I contested and won the appeal stating that I’m not a trades man and the vehicle was not being used for trade. They gave me another ticket at the end of February, which I also contested and won. This morning I get into work and find a letter addressed to my company. Inside is a ‘Notice to the registered keeper’ for the same offence at the beginning of April. The images on the notice show my vehicle parked, but this time with no parking ticket on the windscreen. I’m guessing they are trying to prove that the vehicle is registered to a company and therefore a trades mans vehicle. Do I contest as I have done before or take a different approach?
    I would send a letter back outlining the history and point out by the time of the last ticket, the company was fully in the knowledge that the previous tickets were incorrect therefore the latest one would also be incorrect.

    Quote the relevant section of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and tell them if they contact you with any similar demands in the future you will have the greatest pleasure in prosecuting them for fraud. If you really feel in a cheeky mood attach an invoice for your administration time and costs incurred.
     
  11. MHP's Avatar

    MHP said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Quote Originally Posted by JonEp View Post
    Can you post a picture of the sign on the car park, the tickets you received and the notice to the registered keepers with the personal stuff blanked out or send them via DM ?
    .
    Here's a picture of the signage, I complied with this by clearly displaying a note with the address I was visiting and a phone number;

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    Here's my initial POPLA appeal;


    I wish to appeal the above parking ticket as I believe it has been issued in error I am making my appeal due to the following reason; The vehicle was parked in accordance with the statutory signage clearly visible along the road. I clearly displayed the address I was visiting along with my phone number. I am not a tradesman and the vehicle is not used for trade. I did not park on yellow or white lines, hatched areas or cause an obstruction. I was visiting my friend at ******* who can confirm that I was visiting him and not in the process of trading nor was I using my vehicle for trade. There is no reference on any of the signage stating that commercial vehicles are not allowed to park in the restricted times.

    Here's the parking companies response;

    We note that POPLA have previously misinterpreted the terms and conditions of parking on this estate. To clarify, the terms and conditions state ‘tradesmen’s vehicles may only park Monday – Friday 08:00 -18:00’. This refers to the type of vehicle, not the person driving it or what it is being used for at the time. Our client does not want this type of vehicle on the estate before 08:00 or after 18:00, it makes no difference whether ***** is a tradesman or whether he uses his vehicle for trade. His vehicle, as evidenced above is Category N which is a commercial vehicle, commonly referred to as a tradesmen’s vehicle.

    Here's my response;


    If the operator wishes to prohibit the parking of commercial vehicles during the prescribed times, then the signage should state this and not use a ‘commonly referred’ term such as tradesman’s vehicle. The term ‘tradesman’s vehicle’ does indeed refer to the driver’s occupation and use of the vehicle.

    And here is the POPLA assessment and decision;


    I acknowledge the reason the operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN). The burden of proof lies with the operator to demonstrate that it has issued the PCN correctly. The operator has issued the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) as the appellant’s vehicle was parked on site unauthorised.

    The appellant says that the vehicle was parked in accordance with the signage visible along the road. He says that he displayed the address that he was visiting, along with a contact number. The appellant states that he is not a tradesman. The British Parking Association (BPA) Code of Practice (CoP) states in section 18.3 “Specific parking-terms signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site, so that drivers are given the chance to read them at the time of parking or leaving their vehicle. Keep a record of where all the signs are. Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.” The operator has provided evidence of the signage at the site. From this I can see that it states, “Tradesmen’s vehicles may only park Monday- Friday 08:00 – 18:00, SATURDAY 09:00 – 13:00. No parking on Sundays or Bank Holidays”.

    The Oxford English Dictionary definition of the term Tradesman is, “A man engaged in a trade or a skilled manual occupation, esp. (in later use) one requiring an apprenticeship or other training, as that of a builder, plumber, electrician, etc.; an artisan, a craftsman.” From the evidence provided of the appellant’s vehicle, I am not satisfied that I can determine that the appellant is a tradesman. There is no advertising on the vehicle itself and the signage at the site clearly states, “Tradesmen’s vehicles”. As such, it is not clear that commercial type vehicles are prohibited from parking in the area. As I am not satisfied that the signage at the site is sufficient to inform motorists what vehicles are not permitted at the site, I cannot determine that the appellant has been able to clearly understand the terms and conditions. As such, I can only conclude that the PCN has not been issued correctly. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.
     
  12. MHP's Avatar

    MHP said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    All the above is from the last appeal that I won. The 'notice to registered keeper' ticket that I have just received is for the same reason. The only difference is that the parking company have gone through the DVLA to find out who owns the vehicle. They now know that it is registered to a company.
     
  13. JonEp's Avatar

    JonEp said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    As the question has already been decided by POPLA previously and assuming the signage, vehicle and vehicle appearance hasn't changed since the decision I would appeal the new PCN and enclose a copy of the previous decision. Don't assume there is a human on the other end that recalls your appeal or is out to get your vehicle. Civil Parking enforcement is a numbers game, staff turnover is high, low hanging fruit is their playbook.

    At its extreme and they seek to recognise and enforce the (implied contract) PCN in the County Court, its only bits paper before then, it would be surprising if they actually turned up on the day, the £25 quid court issue fee may seem worth a punt to them to get you to pay up but sending someone to your local county court (the defendant has the right to request this its a tick box on the reply/defence of the summons the court sends you) which may be many miles from their office or instruct local solicitors racks the costs up for them alone, not you and any claimant faced with a previous decision against them on the same point would be a fool IMHO to go before Judge who would feel bound to consider and more than likely follow the previous decision.

    Worth a mention, there are (with few exceptions) no costs orders made in small claim cases so from your point of view you can only win or lose and be ordered to pay the FPN amount , £25 issue fee, and £25 hearing fee and if they claim it, 8% PA interest from the summons issue date.

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    Last edited by JonEp; 27th April 2017 at 11:03 AM.
     
  14. cyprus's Avatar

    cyprus said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    The UK is fucked. To even contemplate such a sign going up anywhere here in Cyprus would be seen as ludicrous.

    In commercial areas there are bays only allowed for loading vehicles during shop hours and that's fair enough but this is such a cunty, cold blooded, heartless, immoral practice going on in the UK. No wonder Brits have such a bad reputation for being cunts.
     
  15. Over Carl's Avatar

    Over Carl said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Interesting thing I found out, "loading" is not as clear cut as some people may imagine.

    Apparently if you are loading/unloading a heavy/large item, this qualifies as loading. If however for example you are stopping to pay money into a bank, this isn't considered loading.

    I don't believe there is any actual specific defined threshold which is the cutoff point.

    However a courier is allowed to use these bays for any type of delivery, even if they are only delivering a sheet of paper, as the law considers it unreasonable to burden couriers with the task of assessing each item.

    One day when I've got fa else better to do, I'm gonna enquire about how I could get myself registered as a courier who only delivers say one parcel a year......
     
  16. MHP's Avatar

    MHP said:

    Default Re: Private parking ticket

    Thanks for your advice guys, I'm going to stick to my original appeal reason as I feel that them knowing the ownership of the vehicle doesn't change anything. I'll let you know how I get on.