Cyclists read in !!!

[Teajunkie]

A cyclist hit our car a few years ago and when I asked him how he was going to pay for the damage he said "you have insurance mate"
admitedly it was only a scratch down the side but that's not the point if the car had been new I would have flattened the Cunt then and there!

If you use a road you should have to have insurance mopeds pay it so why shouldn't cyclists?.
here in Devon every weekend you can't go more than half a mile without being held up by assholes on bikes.

[doughboy]

Cycle super highways are the only answer. These cunts shouldn't be on the same road as vehicles as they have no concept of self preservation.

In fact overground or underground tubes keeping them away from both pedestrians and vehicles would be ideal but they'd probably not use them anyway because they're cunts.

I saw something recently about having brake lights fitted to bikes but that'd cost them too much money.

As Jeremy Clarkson said 'work harder then you could afford a car'

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[BertRoot]

Cycle super highways are the only answer. These cunts shouldn't be on the same road as vehicles as they have no concept of self preservation.

In fact overground or underground tubes keeping them away from both pedestrians and vehicles would be ideal but they'd probably not use them anyway because they're cunts.

I saw something recently about having brake lights fitted to bikes but that'd cost them too much money.

As Jeremy Clarkson said 'work harder then you could afford a car'

Some answers to the above.

Yes I am a cunt but that has always been the case.

I would ride overground but not underground.

I have a brake light on my bike when out at night.

I have a nice car and three bikes thanks.

[maltloaf]

I don't really roll with the cyclists don't pay for the roads argument. I cycle 3000 miles a year for fun but I also own and pay tax, insurance etc on 3 cars. People need to remember that cyclists very often are also motorists.

[satzzz]

Some answers to the above.

Yes I am a cunt but that has always been the case.

I would ride overground but not underground.

I have a brake light on my bike when out at night.

I have a nice car and three bikes thanks.

Are you a Womble Bert?[emoji2]

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[Oily]

If potholes were the issue I would probably be noticing them as well. Round here we seem to have retards that think cycling on roads in random zigzags making it very hard to safely overtake is normal behaviour. If we had a lot of local tractors pointlessly zigzagging across the road putting themselves and everyone around them at danger, then I would bring that up next time we had a thread on nuisance tractor drivers.

Think you missed the point,you treat any cyclist as if they were a vehicle,a tractor was just an example

Without real transparency to let us know exactly where our taxes go it is hard to say.


I can see the point you are making and I will concede that it has some validity.


However in order to use roads, cyclists don't have to pay a penny. In order to use roads, car drivers have to pay Road Tax (actually called VED for the anally retentive), obscene fuel duty, MOT, and insurance (a fair portion of which is tax). My crude mathematics shows me I pay probably around £1.50-£2/mile specifically for the privilege of being able to legally drive down a road (ignoring cost of car or maintenance). How much do you pay roughly per mile on your bicycle?


I notice though that you have ignored the real issue I brought up, that these cyclists have been given infrastructure to help them, and instead of being grateful, they are crying that they might have to sometimes give way.

Road tax was abolished in 1937 I pay approx £300 VED to use my car, which, I think, entitles me to ride my bike on the road.The infrastructure for cyclist is an afterthought with no real thought for the safety of cyclists, encouraging them to ride on the left in these cyclelanes, even when approaching a left/straight on junction for instance, with cars cutting across the cyclists when the car is turning left(had it done to myself on one occasion)
I admit there needs to be some sort of proficiency test before you're allowed on the road as some haven't any 'road sense'.

[Over Carl]

Think you missed the point,you treat any cyclist as if they were a vehicle,a tractor was just an example

Can you not read or something? I previously mentioned that if tractors driving in such a reckless manner was a problem I often faced, I would post it next time we have a thread to moan about tractors. I have respected even these crazy cyclists space as a road user as I haven't managed to go near one yet, and I often will just slowly drive behind them until I finally get a safe opportunity to pass. Why are you continuing on this point? Looks like you are one of the bad cyclists I was thinking about who seem to think that are the only people that matter as I can't see any defence for any road user to be pointlessly zigzagging across the road causing danger to themselves and other road users.

Road tax was abolished in 1937 I pay approx £300 VED to use my car, which, I think, entitles me to ride my bike on the road.The infrastructure for cyclist is an afterthought with no real thought for the safety of cyclists, encouraging them to ride on the left in these cyclelanes, even when approaching a left/straight on junction for instance, with cars cutting across the cyclists when the car is turning left(had it done to myself on one occasion)
I admit there needs to be some sort of proficiency test before you're allowed on the road as some haven't any 'road sense'.

Again can you not read, I already mentioned that what people normally refer to as Road Tax is actually properly called VED.

I don't really roll with the cyclists don't pay for the roads argument. I cycle 3000 miles a year for fun but I also own and pay tax, insurance etc on 3 cars. People need to remember that cyclists very often are also motorists.

In an ideal world, tax money would be well spent, but I honestly don't believe it is. So lets ditch the argument about paying income tax, national insurance, vat, etc, as everyone gets this and everyone gets shafted out of the things we were promised in return for payment of these taxes (e.g. pensions, health care, etc).

It is great that in your capacity as a driver, you pay your way. You have both mentioned you pay VED for use of your cars, and I can also point out that you both probably pay numerous other taxes to legally drive your cars. In the case of Maltloaf (I was in the same boat up until about 6 weeks ago) by paying 3 sets of VED, you are not entitled to any extra privileges in your capacity as a motorist or a cyclist, except being able to legally park 3 cars on a public road instead of one. To go back to the nightclub example, even if I buy 10 VIP tickets for me and my friends for one night, and half my mates don't even show, this is all totally irrelevant when I show up the next day expecting to get in for free because I bought extra tickets the day before.

In your capacities as cyclists however, what do you pay specifically to allow you to cycle? If the answer is £0, then surely it should be a natural conclusion that the road network should be created with a significantly higher priority given to the needs of motorists.

When driving a car approaching a junction, I need to look ahead, to both sides, straight behind me, and behind to both my sides theoretically simultaneously in order to safely proceed. If I manage with a load of metal blocking my view, I laugh when cyclists complain about having such difficulties, especially considering if I get involved in a bump it will probably just be a matter of headache with my insurers while a cyclist is a lot more likely to get injured.

If the day comes where cyclists make a similar contribution as motorists, then I will have much higher sympathies for their plight. However until then, I honestly believe they should be very grateful for infrastructure even if it is added on as an afterthought. However the example Oily cited about a dangerous junction was so poor (because they might have to give way to drivers), and with Oily defending the zigzagging cyclists, I'm sorry Oily but you are strongly giving me impression that you are one of these people who believes that nothing should EVER get in the way of a cyclist, and the cyclist ALWAYS has right of way in EVERY circumstance.

[maltloaf]

I wrote quite a long response to the post above but deleted it all.

I'm not really interested in getting into a them vs us argument as in reality I am both. I'm a cyclist who despairs at the pig headedness and idiocy of SOME drivers and I'm a motorist who despairs at pig headedness and stupidity of SOME cyclists.

We are all trying to get where we are going, stay safe

malty

[Over Carl]

I'm only a motorist, but without cycling I still can see lots of bad behaviour from both.

That's why I thought it might be an idea to have two threads, so everyone gets a bit of space to have a good moan

[dpSparhawk]

LOL, I was going to stay away from this but temptation got the better of me.

Really long boring reply. Feel free to read if you wish...or ignore T'is why I wrapped a spoiler round it to save people scrolling lol

Spoiler:

As somone whom cycles and drives, I see nuclear grade stupidity from both sides. Cars running red lights, driving at murderous speeds, not indicating (ALL Manufacturers, not just BMW or Audis), pulling out of junctions without looking, hogging lanes etc... the list goes on. Similarly, I see pedestrians walking into the road without looking, not using crossings properly, mothers pushing prams into the road and into the path of cars AND cyclists, not to mention the amount of North face Ninjas who think they're tougher than the front end of a car.

Then I see cyclists running red lights, mounting the pavements where there is no cycle lane, pulling wheelies for crazy distances, riding two abreast where it would be safer to go single file for a few moments etc. I see Motorbikes accelerating at absolutely stupid speeds, riding like their organs don't matter to them or too eager to donate them and swerving across the central line on country lanes just to straighten out the road even though there's a car coming.

The common factor in ALL of this is "The Person". It doesn't matter if you're in a car, on a bike, bicycle, on foot, mobility scooter... if you're a cunt, then you're a cunt and some of these cunts are more of a cunt than others.

I ride mostly on the carriageway because here in Liverpool, there are not that many cycle lanes on the stretches of road I'm more frequently riding. Where there are cycle lanes, most of them are broken up efforts with all sorts of shite in them. Stones, broken glass, shards of metal. All of the stuff that gets pushed outwards by passing cars. On a road bike with a tyre an inch wide, that is a dangerous place to be. Where there are GOOD quality Cycle lanes, I WILL use them provided they are not constantly crossing junctions where I have to start/stop/start/stop. Secondly, dedicated cycle lanes off the carriageway seem to attract lots of pedestrians and fucking dog walkers with dogs on extended leads...or worse, loose. I will however gladly use them if they're quieter. As for shared footpath/cycle lanes, the amount of abuse you get off pedestrians is phenomonal with such gems as "use the fucking road"... and then of course there are their dogs (see above) and all manner of dog shite just left and not picked up, and of course their kids running around or weaving all over the place on their own bikes. Mind you, again, those shared paths generally tend to be nowhere near my routes.

Like I said, I'll use them where they're safe, clean, not busy, not broken or constantly crossing side roads.

Riding Two abreast. I will agree that it's in a cyclists best interest to drop in behind their riding partner if there's a couple of you. I often ride with one of my friends and we ride two abreast but one of us ALWAYS drops in behind the very moment we hear a car approach. ALWAYS! When we ride country lanes, if they're narrow and a vehicle wants to pass we always give them the opportunity at the first chance. We don't run red lights either.

With regards to costs. VED is based on emissions. Bicycles do not give off noxious gases. However if someone wishes to measure my own personal gas ommissions and my carbon footprint then I'd gladly pay the 0.01p/year or less it would likely cost. I DO have insurance. It covers my bikes and ALL my equipment. It covers me medically and it also covers me if I damage a car or injure a person through MY actions.

One thing I will say, is that whenever there seems to be a Drivers vs. Cyclist debate online somewhere, most of the hostility towards cyclists seems to be based on incidents that happen in London. Having watched quite a few videos on Youtube of London cyclists... I can actually see whey cyclists are hated so much. There does seem to be a massive portion of brain function missing from a lot of those people. Not all but a lot of them.


Finally Doughboy, the mere fact you quoted Clarkson says a lot. "Work harder so I can afford a car"?

Hmm.... I have a nice enough car. RRP £28K which I know is a lot cheaper than his GTO's, porsches, Ferraris etc but still, 28K isn't a small amount really. I also own £4000 worth of bikes and over £1000 worth of cycling related equipment. Despite owning a car, Two properties, having a mortgage on one, going on two holidays a year, I still have on average between £600 and £800 per month disposable income and over £200,000 in savings so please DO tell me where I need to work harder.....

I can be a right cunt at times... Really, I can.. just not when I'm in my car or on my bike.

[maltloaf]

I would be happy to pay insurance to be honest. Personal accident including 3rd party liability, but who pays and who doesn't. It would stop children riding bikes and that isn't a good thing !

[dpSparhawk]

I would be happy to pay insurance to be honest. Personal accident including 3rd party liability, but who pays and who doesn't. It would stop children riding bikes and that isn't a good thing !

This is where it gets quite muddy. Children should not be riding on the road but then there are some older children / young adults whom are far more sensible and proficient than adults and most certainly many of the much older generation.... but children and some older people are more likely to accidentally damage a car.

A child should never be expected to ride on the carriageway. I'd say from the age of 16 they should then be permitted to use the carriageway upon completing a cycling profiency test and basic theory test. Some people are terrified of the prospect of riding on a road so should be permitted to ride on a pavement. However, I believe ANYBODY whom rides on a pavement should be restricted to a speed no faster than 8mph (which is what I believe mobility scooters are restricted to?) or if you have no speedometer, walking pace. Almost impossible to enforce but if the rule is there, then they should suffer the consequences if involved in an incident.


Shared Cycle/Footpaths should have a similar limit if congested but a common sense approach when there are very few or no people on it.

Dedicated Cycle lanes should be permitted the same speed limits as the main carriageway. Most users cycling at that speed would likely have an OBC that can monitor speed. People walking in them (where they're off the carriageway and NOT Shared) should just fuck off and walk in the pedestrian bit.

There are so many different groups of cyclists, it's really hard to manage. Like I said, on pavements, shared cycle/footpaths - Ride slowly and carefully and to the conditions. If using the public highway then some form of insurance should be expected but then you'll get everyone saying, I'm not paying that, I'm going to ride on the pavement.... it's a losing battle. Those of us whom ride safely, legally and respectfully are demonised by people whom have bad experiences with those whom just don't give a fuck.

Royally pisses me off especially when in my previous post, the common factor is that the person is a cunt, not the conveyance.