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  1. #1
    DF VIP Member GTI's Avatar
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    Default A Swiss view of the UK

    Not exactly complimentary I'm afraid. When I arrived here 10 years ago people were thrilled to be talking to an Englishman and I would often get effusive praise for my home country. Now when I say I'm from the UK the first they usually say is 'Brexit', followed by a light chuckle.

    Translation

    "If it weren't so serious, the situation in Great Britain would almost be comical. The country is being governed by a talking robot, nicknamed the Maybot, that somehow managed to visit the burned-out tower block in the west of London without speaking to a single survivor or voluntary helper. Negotiations for the country’s exit from the EU are due to begin on Monday, but no one has even a hint of a plan. The government is dependent on a small party that provides a cozy home for climate change deniers and creationists. Boris Johnson is Foreign Secretary. What in the world has happened to this country?

    Two years ago David Cameron emerged from the parliamentary election as the shining victor. He had secured an absolute majority, and as a result it looked as if the career of this cheerful lightweight was headed for surprisingly dizzy heights. The economy was growing faster than in any other industrialised country in the world. Scottish independence and, with it, the break-up of the United Kingdom had been averted. For the first time since 1992, there was a Conservative majority in the House of Commons. Great Britain saw itself as a universally respected actor on the international stage. This was the starting point.

    In order to get from this comfortable position to the chaos of the present in the shortest possible time, two things were necessary: first, the Conservative right wingers’ obsessive hatred of the EU, and second, Cameron’s irresponsibility in putting the whole future of the country on the line with his referendum, just to satisfy a few fanatics in his party. It is becoming ever clearer just how extraordinarily bad a decision that was. The fact that Great Britain has become the laughing stock of Europe is directly linked to its vote for Brexit.

    The ones who will suffer most will be the British people, who were lied to by the Brexit campaign during the referendum and betrayed and treated like idiots by elements of their press. The shamelessness still knows no bounds: the Daily Express has asked in all seriousness whether the inferno in the tower block was due to the cladding having been designed to meet EU standards. It is a simple matter to discover that the answer to this question is No, but by failing to check it, the newspaper has planted the suspicion that the EU might be to blame for this too. As an aside: a country in which parts of the press are so demonstrably uninterested in truth and exploit a disaster like the fire in Grenfell Tower for their own tasteless ends has a very serious problem.

    Already prices are rising in the shops, already inflation is on the up. Investors are holding back. Economic growth has slowed. And that’s before the Brexit negotiations have even begun. With her unnecessary general election, Prime Minister Theresa May has already squandered an eighth of the time available for them. How on earth an undertaking as complex as Brexit is supposed to be agreed in the time remaining is a mystery.
    Great Britain will end up leaving its most important trading partner and will be left weaker in every respect. It would make economic sense to stay in the single market and the customs union, but that would mean being subject to regulations over which Britain no longer had any say. It would be better to have stayed in the EU in the first place. So the government now needs to develop a plan that is both politically acceptable and brings the fewest possible economic disadvantages. It’s a question of damage limitation, nothing more; yet even now there are still politicians strutting around Westminster smugly trumpeting that it will be the EU that comes off worst if it doesn’t toe the line.

    The EU is going to be dealing with a government that has no idea what kind of Brexit it wants, led by an unrealistic politician whose days are numbered; and a party in which old trenches are being opened up again: moderate Tories are currently hoping to be able to bring about a softer exit after all, but the hardliners in the party – among them more than a few pigheadedly obstinate ideologues – are already threatening rebellion. An epic battle lies ahead, and it will paralyse the government.

    EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said that he now expects the Brits to finally set out their position clearly, since he cannot negotiate with himself. The irony of this statement is that it would actually be in Britain’s best interests if he did just that. At least that way they’d have one representative on their side who grasps the scale of the task and is actually capable of securing a deal that will be fair to both sides. The Brits do not have a single negotiator of this stature in their ranks. And quite apart from the Brexit terms, both the debate and the referendum have proven to be toxic in ways that are now making themselves felt.

    British society is now more divided than at any time since the English civil war in the 17th century, a fact that was demonstrated anew in the general election, in which a good 80% of the votes were cast for the two largest parties. Neither of these parties was offering a centrist programme: the election was a choice between the hard right and the hard left. The political centre has been abandoned, and that is never a good sign. In a country like Great Britain, that for so long had a reputation for pragmatism and rationality, it is grounds for real concern. The situation is getting decidedly out of hand.

    After the loss of its empire, the United Kingdom sought a new place in the world. It finally found it, as a strong, awkward and influential part of a larger union: the EU. Now it has given up this place quite needlessly. The consequence, as is now becoming clear, is a veritable identity crisis from which it will take the country a very long time to recover."

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    "You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com"
    -Benjamin Franklin

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  2. #2
    DF VIP Member
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    I think somebody needs to look up what the hard left and hard right are.

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    pattikins (19th June 2017)  


  3. #3
    DF VIP Member TJB's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by GTI View Post
    Now when I say I'm from the UK the first they usually say is 'Brexit', followed by a light chuckle.
    Unfortunately, in my experience once you get out of the larger towns and cities, ignorance, stupidity and casual racism is rife. I'm from Grimsby which I was fortunate enough to escape from when I was 19. Nearly everyone I know from there voted for Brexit. None of them could actually tell me why, aside from 'It's the migrants, init' or 'I'm sick of Brussels telling me what shape my bananas have to be'. I also remember a few years ago, Les Ferdinand wrote in his autobiography that the worse case of racist abuse he had suffered was at Grimsby. This was picked up by the local paper and at the next home game, there was a genuine sense of pride from large sections of fans who saw no irony cheering on the black players who played for Grimsby.

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  4. #4
    DF VIP Member MHP's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Well if Brexit goes tits up then the UK could always set itself up as a tax haven for the extremely wealthy and a convenient place to bury shady business dealings. Then, if the fascists kick off we could also declare ourselves as neutral and allow other country's to sacrifice there young people and their economies.

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  5. #5
    DF VIP Member DJ OD's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Pretty much agree with their view TBH. Just with all the crap that 2017 has offered up alone, I am not proud of where am from and cannot wait until I get out. Unfortunately it will take me years to do so... We are fast becoming a laughing stock.


    DJ OD

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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  6. #6
    DF Super Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Overdose View Post
    Pretty much agree with their view TBH. Just with all the crap that 2017 has offered up alone, I am not proud of where am from and cannot wait until I get out. Unfortunately it will take me years to do so... We are fast becoming a laughing stock.


    DJ OD
    I've been talking with an accent for nearly 6 months now ;-)

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  7. #7
    DF VIP Member GTI's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MHP View Post
    Then if the fascists kick off we could also declare ourselves as neutral and allow other country's to sacrifice there young people and their economies.
    We won the war, we won the 1966 Cup.. former glories that nobody outside our tiny Island cares about.
    Europe has moved on, nobody on The Continent mentions the war because its no longer relevant.
    "You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com"
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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  8. #8
    DF Super Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    The only thing I am still proud of is the 'Yorkshire Pudding'

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    stevo25 (19th June 2017)  


  9. #9
    DF VIP Member MHP's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    There's no glory in 80 million deaths and to associate that with a football tournament is crass. The Swiss sat on the fence through two major wars, however their banking organisations were far from neutral with Nazi money and gold. I'm sure the Swiss banks have a vested interest in the finances of the EU so the views stated in the article are far from neutral.

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  10. #10
    DF VIP Member GTI's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MHP View Post
    There's no glory in 80 million deaths and to associate that with a football tournament is crass. The Swiss sat on the fence through two major wars, however their banking organisations were far from neutral with Nazi money and gold. I'm sure the Swiss banks have a vested interest in the finances of the EU so the views stated in the article are far from neutral.
    Mate, its not that deep. The writer is the London based correspondent for Der Bund and has a lot of affection for our country as evidenced by a book he compiled on the Brits.

    My point is that we bang on about the war and revel in wartime stereotypes but the fact is nobody else talks about it on the continent, hardly anyone was alive then (The President of France is 39 ).
    "You have reached the end of you free trial membership at BenjaminFranklinQuotes.com"
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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  11. #11
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Probably don't talk about it because it was a shameful period of history. France fell, the Dutch had a deal with Germany to let them get on with it, Italy blew Hitler's German helmet, the Swiss made a fortune, the Austrians did nothing.
    No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...

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  12. #12
    DF Super Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by beansontoast View Post
    Probably don't talk about it because it was a shameful period of history. France fell, the Dutch had a deal with Germany to let them get on with it, Italy blew Hitler's German helmet, the Swiss made a fortune, the Austrians did nothing.
    As you say ... the 1900 was shit period of murder and corruption by all parties. However the 2000s are going to be far worse.... the parties that be think they are going to do a better job covering it all up but I am not convinced at all !!

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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  13. #13
    DF VIP Member MHP's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    And my point is that the Swiss have a less than illustrious track record when it come to ethical finance and banking (if there is such a thing). The people may be young and forward thinking but the financial institutions still protect and covet the big money and they always have.

    His article follows the standard remain argument that has been cultivated since the referendum. I hear it everyday in the bars, pubs, shops and restaurants of the wealthiest parts of London. Being a correspondent for Der Bond... he probably hung out in those places.

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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  14. #14
    DF Super Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Tried to edit my own post but it wont work :

    Edit above....

    In some respects we are more in the dark ages now than ever before. The control of people is at an all time high.

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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  15. #15
    DF VIP Member MHP's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by piggzy View Post

    In some respects we are more in the dark ages now than ever before. The control of people is at an all time high.
    I disagree mate, I feel we are at a turning point. Sure, some cocks are looking at EDL and daesh websites and the ever diminishing old school still buying the 'current bun' every day, however many are turning away from the mass media, spoon fed shit and starting to make their own minds up.

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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  16. #16
    DF VIP Member
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    I used to drive around several European countries in the 1970's for a living, the most common view I used to hear of the English was that we are the mugs of the world..I couldn't disagree then and still cannot disagree with that view now.

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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


  17. #17
    VIP Member CzarJunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    The rot started a long time before Cameron secured an overall majority two years ago. The worst thing that happened to this nation was our imperial ambitions and building the largest Empire the world has ever seen. You only have to look at history to see how Empires end. And now, after decades of punching above our weight, we're finally finding our true place in the world. Which is eating scraps from the plate of the next Empire destined to fall, the US.

    The only real chance we had was to be part of a social and economic union that had the size and clout to compete on the global stage. Oops.

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  18. #18
    DF VIP Member Over Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by CzarJunkie View Post
    The rot started a long time before Cameron secured an overall majority two years ago. The worst thing that happened to this nation was our imperial ambitions and building the largest Empire the world has ever seen. You only have to look at history to see how Empires end. And now, after decades of punching above our weight, we're finally finding our true place in the world. Which is eating scraps from the plate of the next Empire destined to fall, the US.

    The only real chance we had was to be part of a social and economic union that had the size and clout to compete on the global stage. Oops.
    I agree with you that the rot started before Cameron. Maybe it's hard for me to make an informed decision as I was born in 1980, but there are two points I consider where the rot started but I struggle to make up my mind which is the real reason for today's mess.

    Was it Thatcher (no further comment needed)?

    Or was it Blair for betraying Labour principles?

    It seems apparent the country did rot while Thatcher was in power. But historically people would have expected things to swing the other way under Labour control which didn't really happen. At least I can't knock the Conservatives for staying true to their principles but Blair single handedly destroyed the practical idea of have two major opposing policial parties. If it wasn't for Blair I wouldn't be surprised if Labour might have won our last general election.

  19. #19
    VIP Member CzarJunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Over Carl View Post
    I agree with you that the rot started before Cameron. Maybe it's hard for me to make an informed decision as I was born in 1980, but there are two points I consider where the rot started but I struggle to make up my mind which is the real reason for today's mess.

    Was it Thatcher (no further comment needed)?

    Or was it Blair for betraying Labour principles?

    It seems apparent the country did rot while Thatcher was in power. But historically people would have expected things to swing the other way under Labour control which didn't really happen. At least I can't knock the Conservatives for staying true to their principles but Blair single handedly destroyed the practical idea of have two major opposing policial parties. If it wasn't for Blair I wouldn't be surprised if Labour might have won our last general election.
    For me it was neither. If you want to blame an individual, I'd try Rupert Murdoch. He was partly responsible for legitimising Thatcher's policies and convincing millions of working class voters to repeatedly vote against their own economic interests. And to top it off, he then helped create and legitimise 'New Labour', and effectively killed socialist politics in the U.K.

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  20. #20
    DF Super Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Swiss view of the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Over Carl View Post
    Or was it Blair for betraying Labour principles?

    If it wasn't for Blair I wouldn't be surprised if Labour might have won our last general election.
    I was really surprised in the days running up to the election how many people I came in contact with and friends basically said "I have voted Labour my whole life but after Blair, I just don't think I can do it this time." ... and I know a few who followed through on that sentiment.

    So to some degree I think you may be right .

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    Over Carl (22nd June 2017)  


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