Something Czar said

[DavidF]

Here is a quote from Czar (hope you don't mind mate).

I think we need to rethink what's important and maybe look to family and community as the most important aspects of life, rather than facebook, material wealth and superficial distractions like our celebrity culture etc.

I have been thinking of this lately. I do think we have taken a dramatic turn in the last 30-40 years maybe even longer. It's incredible that there is more documented "sad" people now in the UK (Other similar countries are the same) considering that for most of us our living "standards" are that of the dreams of our own ancestors. Heat, Light, food.....most of us have this and yet we all take it for granted.
People in previous generations were apparently "happier" with their lot...considering this was a time when there were two world wars, plagues, ect ect ect, You have to wonder why people are this sad.
I have always read a cross spectrum of political books as I like to see how the other half think even if I don't agree with them. I have recently been reading a book by Peter Hitchens (That cretin from the Daily mail) - Now the man is in many ways an arse lol BUT I did come away from reading a few of his thoughts with some kind of recognition of where he was coming from.

He mentioned the break down of family unit - How it is now too "easy" to divorce and walk away or have a kid as a single mother without the support of the father. Now as pompous as that sounds it DOES affect society and it does affect many kids with stuff like stability, learning, missing out on the benefit of both parents. Hitchens points out that our very own benefits system actually encourages couples to split up - They will pay a separated couple much more cash to "live" than they would if they stayed together as a couple. .......This is just a sample of what he was touching on but IMHO I have to agree that the easing of divorce laws and the changing of the benefits system has assisted in moving us away from the reliance on family and society.
My own thoughts then wandered and just from a money perspective I wonder if there has ever been a study (I'm sure there must have been) that shows the cost to the taxpayer of a broken family ....You know £x,000 per family unit per year or whatever - by tax payer I'm talking any extra benefits now required extra help required at school ect too all comes into the cost. I wonder if (This was just me day dreaming) the government found that this cost say £40k over 25 years and in turn offered couples going forward a "bonus" payment for basically "being good citizens" by staying together under one roof and bringing up any kids under that same roof - Even if that bonus was £25k it "may" save the taxpayer (You) cash and may assist in halting the decline of our society. A good society with good values helps us all imho.
My own issue with my dream is that I don't like and don't have any time for religion......BUT I can see that the teachings of many religions were almost designed to control and instil some sort of order in communities. Maybe the church could assist the government with charity help to those couples who are struggling - the help could be just talking therapy or even the better promotion of the stuff that churches do during the week - you know the drawing, reading, writing, knitting, dog training, youth clubs ect ect ect - I think we can all agree that the small villages ect that get right into this stuff appear to have happier people with lower crime ect ect.
As I say I have no time myself for religion so I can't bring myself to promote it lol but IT would be nice to see something replicate the intention....Keep us buggers all in some sort of order with an eye on personal pride and responsibility.

What do you lot think lol ? Probably the most difficult thing I have tried to write as I have very mixed feelings on the subject.....Maybe I should go back to reading fiction lol. I still think Hitchen's is a tosser by the way.

[piggzy]

You make a good point about the values some religions can instil.

One example of this is a guy I know who was going to church every sunday but only recently started and he really isn't the type.
I called him out at some point and he said we are only doing it to get his child into some religious pre school and no way would he continue after that and it was purely to get "good morals, ethics, manners, family values" etc taught to his child.
Now at the time I thought teach him manners urself you cnut, but I do sort of get it.

Still not my cup of tea but I sort of see the twisted logic.

[Teajunkie]

We were all happier before the internet!

Most kids would rather be at home playing Xbox than out making real connections with friends. This world is fucked and on a steep decline into a sad lonely planet.
Internet = Lazyness or convenience whichever way you see it, which means we don't mix as people anymore.

[GTI]

If you can imagine a meeting of the 'Masters of the Universe' and their plans to control the world it would probably include

• Promote disrespect of ones parents as being normal/funny (see The Simpsons)
• Have the ability to track and listen in on every citizen in real time
• Normalise behaviour and practices which were once considered obscene
• Destroy religion, or make it seem unfashionable and unecessery
• Make pornography freely available
• Legalise all drugs
• Engineer elections which can be easily manipulated by mass communication
• Promote greed and materialism
• Discourage social enterprises
• Promote euthanasia as humane and acceptable i.e. the sick and elderly are nothing more a drain on society
• etc.. etc..

When you look at the evolution of human history, we are now accelerating towards the end at a remarkable rate and I truly believe that there are higher forces with their foot on the gas pedal. Its almost as if they want to bring about Civilisation 2.0

[DavidF]

You make a good point about the values some religions can instil.

One example of this is a guy I know who was going to church every sunday but only recently started and he really isn't the type.
I called him out at some point and he said we are only doing it to get his child into some religious pre school and no way would he continue after that and it was purely to get "good morals, ethics, manners, family values" etc taught to his child.
Now at the time I thought teach him manners urself you cnut, but I do sort of get it.

Still not my cup of tea but I sort of see the twisted logic.

It's not just about you teaching your own kids those values though. Their surroundings will always play a part in what they pick up and who they are influenced by..If a class of 28 kids are all taught those values then each should influence the other hopefully backed up at home by the parents.

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[akimba]

Religion? Maybe National Service would have the same impact.

I do believe that the acceleration of technology has had detrimental effects on the Society and social media is probably the biggest oxymoron going it is quite anti-social.

Go to a restaurant and look at which couples are talking to each other and which are posting images of their starters :-(

[CzarJunkie]

I think it's more the breakdown of communities that has led us to this, rather than the breakup of families. I actually think the latter is made much more likely by the former. We evolved to live in small social groups, usually no bigger than 20-50 people (although hunter gatherer groups did become larger). Within those groups you relied on each other to help feed and raise your children and look after the elder members. We've lost that, and emotionally, we're much poorer as a result.

I never thought I'd look at religion as a beacon of hope, but that's one way of creating a strong community around a shared ideal. It's not a utopia, but then nothing ever is. And the more I've thought about atheism or humanism, which were the tenets to which I gravitated to the most, the more I realise how flawed they are. They may be more rational but they do very little for our emotional wellbeing. And we are emotional creatures. If we were simply creatures of logic, then maybe those would suffice.

And in science, some find comfort and see hope for a brighter future. I hope they are right. I've spent many years hoping science would provide me with the same, but it hasn't. I'm still a firm believer in the scientific method and critical thinking, but I'm also open to the unknown, the fantastical and the idea of a creator. If science has taught me one thing, it's that the impossible is possible in a Universe where we know very little. And the more I learn the more I realise we don't know.

I went off topic a little at the end there, apologies.

[DavidF]

Drift off topic as much as you feel is relevant mate. Like I said in the op. This has just been a little musing (fancy word alert) I have had after reading one of Hitchens books.
He also bemoaned the loss of policing by consent and even more so the loss of the beat bobby as other factors in our social breakdown.
I have to agree with his thinking about the beat bobby being the all important local link to the community....Back in the early days of the police it would be common to see the public assist the police......Now you rarely see it. In fact the police actively discourage our participation...So they have become sort of non citizens...Just untouchable and unreachable authority figures who would rather have you for speeding than prevent crime.

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[Over Carl]

Nature fucked off the dinosaurs, give it a while and nature will fuck us off as well.

[piggzy]

Nature fucked off the dinosaurs, give it a while and nature will fuck us off as well.

Maybe nature should bring the dinosaurs back and let natural selection take it's course.

[crazyal]

I corrected that for you.

Maybe John Hammond should bring the dinosaurs back and let natural selection take it's course.

[TJB]

I think we can all agree that the small villages ect that get right into this stuff appear to have happier people with lower crime ect ect.

I don't buy into that. I live in a small village in Lincolnshire. I've been there for about 14 years now. I moved there to raise a family as I thought it would be a safer place to bring my kids up. And for a couple for years it was great. Then the local council started moving nuisance tenants from the local, larger towns into some social housing that was on the outskirts of the village. Since then the place has slowly gone downhill. I'd guess that there's probably between 50 and 100 houses on the estate but it's a fucking nightmare. There's only one school in the village and you see no end of scumbags dropping their kids off, with their can of Monster in one hand and a fag in the other.
The rate they pop out kids is frightening.

Certainly when I was growing up, there was a stigma attached to being on the dole. But now it's a fucking badge of honor for a lot of people. There's no incentive for any of them to go to work because they can earn more on the dole than they can working.

A couple of years ago, a young mum was picking up her 4 year old who was in the same class as my daughter. Anyway, the teacher come across and has a quiet word with the mum. With that, the mum belts her son round the head and drags him off home. As she's dragging him away she screams at him ' What have I told you about fucking swearing!'

I honestly think at this point, the only real hope for humanity is an event that brings it close to extinction.

[mij]

When I was a kid most men could earn enough to provide for the family meaning mum could raise the kids, this was a pretty good way to live. As time has passed I have seen it change to where most men cannot earn enough to live this way, meaning both man & wife have to work full time, this adds a lot of complications and stress into the family unit.

Recently I worked out that two so called average wages of £27,000 combined would not even get a large enough mortgage to buy a 2 bedroom flat where I live in South London, even renting would cost at least £1200.00 a month which must be helping to cause some of these problems.

We have lost our way!

[GTI]

When I was a kid most men could earn enough to provide for the family meaning mum could raise the kids, this was a pretty good way to live. As time has passed I have seen it change to where most men cannot earn enough to live this way, meaning both man & wife have to work full time, this adds a lot of complications and stress into the family unit.

Recently I worked out that two so called average wages of £27,000 combined would not even get a large enough mortgage to buy a 2 bedroom flat where I live in South London, even renting would cost at least £1200.00 a month which must be helping to cause some of these problems.

We have lost our way!

A few months ago we were invited to the house of a Swiss couple and I saw something I hadn't seen in 10 years......... a CRT television.

What I also saw were stacks of board games, arts and crafts and heaving shelves of books completely dwarfing the pathetic Sony Triniton. And by the door they had their hiking boots and top quality outdoor clothing because thats what they do on a Sunday, hike up mountains, camp and generally enjoy the outdoors whatever the weather (The Swiss have a saying, there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes)

Today we crown our living rooms with the biggest Plasma tellies our credit cards can muster and then allow unfiltered content to stream into our and our children's consciousness. Shit like Love Island, Naked dating shows, Soaps with questionable story lines etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm the last to preach as I have a 60" TV with Netflix and often plonk the kids in front of it like a surrogate babysitter and then wonder why the 4 year old is coming up with wise ass replies or telling me to 'chill out dad' WTF???

That visit really made me think that the simple, traditional way of life may not be all that bad. So very soon after I had a chat with the missus and in the New Year she will reduce her work hours from 100% down to 60% until the kids finish primary school at the very least. Fortunately in Switzerland it is still possible to survive on one salary (thanks to low inflation, rent control etc.) so this may be a luxury others don't have.

[mij]

A few months ago we were invited to the house of a Swiss couple and I saw something I hadn't seen in 10 years......... a CRT television.

What I also saw were stacks of board games, arts and crafts and heaving shelves of books completely dwarfing the pathetic Sony Triniton. And by the door they had their hiking boots and top quality outdoor clothing because thats what they do on a Sunday, hike up mountains, camp and generally enjoy the outdoors whatever the weather (The Swiss have a saying, there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes)

Today we crown our living rooms with the biggest Plasma tellies our credit cards can muster and then allow unfiltered content to stream into our and our children's consciousness. Shit like Love Island, Naked dating shows, Soaps with questionable story lines etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm the last to preach as I have a 60" TV with Netflix and often plonk the kids in front of it like a surrogate babysitter and then wonder why the 4 year old is coming up with wise ass replies or telling me to 'chill out dad' WTF???

That visit really made me think that the simple, traditional way of life may not be all that bad. So very soon after I had a chat with the missus and in the New Year she will reduce her work hours from 100% down to 60% until the kids finish primary school at the very least. Fortunately in Switzerland it is still possible to survive on one salary (thanks to low inflation, rent control etc.) so this may be a luxury others don't have.

A wise choice that your entire family will benefit from, life is not about who has the most toys but more about balance in my opinion...everything in moderation and try not to inflict unnecessary debt on yourself is what I preach to my children.

[CzarJunkie]

A few months ago we were invited to the house of a Swiss couple and I saw something I hadn't seen in 10 years......... a CRT television.

What I also saw were stacks of board games, arts and crafts and heaving shelves of books completely dwarfing the pathetic Sony Triniton. And by the door they had their hiking boots and top quality outdoor clothing because thats what they do on a Sunday, hike up mountains, camp and generally enjoy the outdoors whatever the weather (The Swiss have a saying, there is no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothes)

Today we crown our living rooms with the biggest Plasma tellies our credit cards can muster and then allow unfiltered content to stream into our and our children's consciousness. Shit like Love Island, Naked dating shows, Soaps with questionable story lines etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm the last to preach as I have a 60" TV with Netflix and often plonk the kids in front of it like a surrogate babysitter and then wonder why the 4 year old is coming up with wise ass replies or telling me to 'chill out dad' WTF???

That visit really made me think that the simple, traditional way of life may not be all that bad. So very soon after I had a chat with the missus and in the New Year she will reduce her work hours from 100% down to 60% until the kids finish primary school at the very least. Fortunately in Switzerland it is still possible to survive on one salary (thanks to low inflation, rent control etc.) so this may be a luxury others don't have.

I think you've identified the main issue with modern life, the lack of real connection with your family and friends. I attended a family dinner recently and everyone around the table, from the adolescents up to the great grandparents, had a smart phone. And everyone seemed more interested in either taking photos and uploading them to their feed, or totally ignoring everyone in favour of their screen. We did spend time talking to each other, but that seemed secondary to everyone's own digital relationship.

[JonEp]

I think you've identified the main issue with modern life, the lack of real connection with your family and friends. I attended a family dinner recently and everyone around the table, from the adolescents up to the great grandparents, had a smart phone. And everyone seemed more interested in either taking photos and uploading them to their feed, or totally ignoring everyone in favour of their screen. We did spend time talking to each other, but that seemed secondary to everyone's own digital relationship.

Something you see everyday in cafes and restaurants all over the world, people on their phones connected but not with each other.

I do think there is a change happening though, kids seem to be moving away from social media leaving their parents to it.

[GTI]

I do think there is a change happening though, kids seem to be moving away from social media leaving their parents to it.

We took the kids to a play centre in Watford over xmas and literally every other mum or dad was glued to their phone whilst the kids were running around. Perhaps fair enough its a play centre, but still it made me think this isn't healthy. I have a rule with the missus that when we are out with the kids, the phones are put away (she has a much more active social media life than me, so I felt nice and pious with that one )

[EvilBoB]

Nature fucked off the dinosaurs, give it a while and nature will fuck us off as well.

Agent Smith in The Matrix describes humanity as a virus.. If that's the case maybe the Earth's immune system is finally kicking in...

[EvilBoB]

We took the kids to a play centre in Watford over xmas and literally every other mum or dad was glued to their phone whilst the kids were running around. Perhaps fair enough its a play centre, but still it made me think this isn't healthy. I have a rule with the missus that when we are out with the kids, the phones are put away (she has a much more active social media life than me, so I felt nice and pious with that one )

My missus is a LOT younger than me and she suffers from phone staring addition as I like to call it. When I walk in from the kitchen it's a normal sight to see her and my son glued to their phones with the TV rumbling on in the background. There are times I'm not much better but as I have a four year old I have seen the same as GTI in play centre's and pubs with play areas.

I don't really care about social media "friends". 90% of the shit they post is fake anyway to make them feel better about themselves or to get attention. I'd much prefer to be playing with my daughter in the garden than posting snapchats or instagram pics. At least that generation will have well documented lives for the rest of eternity.