Uber gets the boot in London

[GTI]

Uber loses its licence to operate in London



Uber will not be issued a new private hire licence, Transport for London (TfL) has said.

TfL concluded the ride-hailing app firm was not fit and proper to hold a private hire operator licence.

Uber's approach and conduct demonstrated a lack of corporate responsibility which could have potential public safety and security implications, it said.
Uber said it would appeal to keep the licence.

It said the decision shows the world that "far from being open, London is closed to innovative companies".

There had been growing speculation that the app could be banned from London.

Opponents of the firm claim it causes gridlocked roads and does not do enough to regulate its drivers.

Some 3.5 million passengers and 40,000 drivers use the Uber app in London.

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said in a statement: "I fully support TfL's decision - it would be wrong if TfL continued to license Uber if there is any way that this could pose a threat to Londoners' safety and security."
General secretary of the Licensed Taxi Drivers' Association Steve McNamara said: "The mayor has made the right call not to relicense Uber.

"We expect Uber will again embark on a spurious legal challenge against the mayor and TfL, and we will urge the court to uphold this decision. This immoral company has no place on London's streets".
Uber has 21 days to appeal.

Source

[GTI]

I have to put my hands up and say I sometimes use them when I'm in town. I didn't know things were so bad, the drivers usually seem happy and customer focused and not as bitter or miserable as our lovely black taxi drivers

[DavidF]

Uber loses its licence to operate in London



Uber will not be issued a new private hire licence, Transport for London (TfL) has said.

TfL concluded the ride-hailing app firm was not fit and proper to hold a private hire operator licence.

Uber's approach and conduct demonstrated a lack of corporate responsibility which could have potential public safety and security implications, it said.
Uber said it would appeal to keep the licence.

It said the decision shows the world that "far from being open, London is closed to innovative companies".

There had been growing speculation that the app could be banned from London.

Opponents of the firm claim it causes gridlocked roads and does not do enough to regulate its drivers.

Some 3.5 million passengers and 40,000 drivers use the Uber app in London.

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said in a statement: "I fully support TfL's decision - it would be wrong if TfL continued to license Uber if there is any way that this could pose a threat to Londoners' safety and security."
General secretary of the Licensed Taxi Drivers' Association Steve McNamara said: "The mayor has made the right call not to relicense Uber.

"We expect Uber will again embark on a spurious legal challenge against the mayor and TfL, and we will urge the court to uphold this decision. This immoral company has no place on London's streets".
Uber has 21 days to appeal.

Source

Good. No doubt this will drag on. Remember people whenever you underpay for a service it's the workers who are receiving the shitty deal. This is a big day for licensed cabbies all over the UK.

Sent from my Elephone P8000 using Tapatalk

[GTI]

Good. No doubt this will drag on. Remember people whenever you underpay for a service it's the workers who are receiving the shitty deal. This is a big day for licensed cabbies all over the UK.

Ryanair Pilots on zero hour contracts too.. the fightback begins.

[DavidF]

Ryanair Pilots on zero hour contracts too.. the fightback begins.

The pilots have an even bigger fight as the Ryanair ones are not in any union as O'leary pointed out quite menacingly the other day when he told shareholders that he was going to"force" pilots to cancel a weekend holiday....The way he just bluntly announced it without even speaking to them 1st speaks volumes imho.

Sent from my Elephone P8000 using Tapatalk

[DJ OD]

Used them in London for ages, not a single problem.

used them in Dubai, bit unreliable at pickups but not really any problems.

used in St Petersburg recently and they were better, safer, cleaner, quicker and more reliable than local taxis.

I think some government cunt got a dirty Prius and made TfL this way.


DJ OD

[CzarJunkie]

Uber are the future, and that's something we should all worry about. Their attitude to their human assets is deporable. And as soon as they can replace human drivers with self driving cars, they will. If all corporations mirror their 'innovations' we're not far away from a very distopian future. Human capital is in danger of obsolescence.

[Zippeyrude]

With the charges and out of touch attitude that black cabs have I await the day they get rinsed. Uber had its problems but it was also welcome competition to the near black cab monopoly.

A sad day, politically motivated due to the tfl unionism and chronism...

I hope uber wins the appeal

[DavidF]

Coming to a job near you soon. Forget a working day just go on standby. Forget holiday pay, forget sick pay, forget security, balls to the licencing, don't moan when your race's rise to pay the shortfall.
Sadly a reflection on society or more precisely the lack of society.


Sent from my Elephone P8000 using Tapatalk

[Zippeyrude]

No more risk than minicabs, why aren't they all closed down too?

The irony is that uber drivers choose to work. They often supplement other income. Nobody forces this 'slave labour'. A better way to view this is that it provides people with the ability to earn.

I don't care that cabbies have had to study for ages for the Knowledge, sat nav tech is here so we shouldn't get stuck in the 80's.

Also, I'd trust Uber's app transparency over journey routes than black cabs that sting people with routes, refuse longer distance journeys, charge disgusting rates, etc.

I hope uber wins the appeal. They have new management and have changed. None of the issues cannot be addressed. Long live competition that is in the interest of the consumer.
.

[Raptor]

Hundreds of thousands of people have signed a petition calling for Transport for London to reverse its decision not to renew Uber's licence.
On Friday, the regulator said Uber was not "fit and proper" to hold a London private hire operator licence on the grounds of "public safety and security implications".
More than 400,000 names have since been added to Uber's petition on Change.org.
The ride-hailing app firm says it will appeal against TfL's decision.
The petition, started by Uber London, says: "If this decision stands, it will put more than 40,000 licensed drivers out of work and deprive millions of Londoners of a convenient and affordable form of transport."
TfL's concerns include Uber's approach to carrying out background checks on drivers and reporting serious criminal offences.
Uber's licence is due to expire on 30 September.
It has 21 days to appeal against TfL's decision and can continue to operate while any appeals are ongoing.
Petitioner Glenn Gathercole, from London, said he added his signature because: "Uber provides a much needed alternative to minicabs and black cabs. It is more efficient, safer and economical than the alternatives."
And Twitter user @Gabbysalaza_ said that she was "annoyed" at the decision as Uber allowed her to get out of "uncomfy" situations if out at night.
Others have said that the ruling was within the company's control.
"Uber knew the rules. TFL asked them to comply with the rules. Uber refused. What is TFL supposed to do?" said political commentator Owen Jones.
Danielle Louise? wrote on Twitter: "Londoners are literally more outraged at the loss of Uber than the fact women are being sexually assaulted in fake taxis."
'London is closed'

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has given his full support to TfL's decision.
"It would be wrong if TfL continued to license Uber if there is any way that this could pose a threat to Londoners' safety and security," he said.
But minister for London Greg Hands said, while the company must address safety concerns, Mr Khan was threatening to leave users "stranded" and put thousands out of work.
Uber has said the move "would show the world that, far from being open, London is closed to innovative companies".
Some 3.5 million passengers and 40,000 drivers use the Uber app in London.

---

Uber controversies

• Chief executive Travis Kalanick, who helped found the company in 2009, resigned in July following a series of scandals and criticism of his management style
• In June, 20 staff were sacked after a law firm investigated specific complaints made to the company about sexual harassment, bullying, and retaliation for reporting problems
• At the start of 2017, the firm paid £16.2m ($20m) in the US to settle allegations it gave false promises to drivers over how much they would earn
• In October 2016 Uber lost a landmark employment tribunal in the UK that ruled drivers should be classed as workers rather than being self-employed
• A few months later Uber announced it would offer English courses, financial advice and introduce an appeals panel for its UK workers after facing criticism over lack of support and rights for its drivers
• In 2015 the New Delhi government banned app-based taxi companies after an Uber driver raped a passenger in his vehicle
• Uber stopped operating in Austin, Texas, when it was told drivers would have to have fingerprint background checks, but it reinstated its services after the requirement was ended

---

Let's block ads! (Why?)


BBC News

[evilsatan]

Zippey has essentially mirrored my comments on the petition. The knowledge is redundant, sat nav with dynamic routing around traffic is the obvious way forward, being able to hail a cab to your precise location easily with a fare estimate, travel record for transparency are all things that should have been adopted by the black cabs (I assume they still haven't). My local towns all have firms that have copied the Uber apps for user convenience and they seem to be doing well off the back of it.

Pollution isn't something top of my radar but aren't black cabs using diesel whereas not only are a large proportion of Uber's electric but I'm pretty sure they recently made a commitment to be 100% electric by something like 2019. From what I've read they are only starting to introduce the hybrid black cabs later this year.

It's always seemed to me that the black cabs are stuck in the past, refusing to modernise and instead moaning about competition, a bit like how copyright holders took a while to get into the digital market. I've not touched upon the labour side of things as all I know is they are contractors rather than employees so don't get employee benefits, I thought the drivers picked their own conditions, hours etc with bonuses if they hit targets.

Addison Lee is an alternative to Uber I used before Uber got so big in London for anyone who needs an alternative.

[DavidF]

I want to respond to the uber defenders here but I don't want to get into an argument.
The model is great. Their implementation of the model is flawed.
Yes people are free to work for whoever they want. Unfortunately for the charlatans of this country we still have some laws and regulations and workers rights and protections.
The government don't like it because those drivers could be paying tax and ni. The employers could be paying tax and ni. Neither do pay as much as they should.

Local cab firms already offer the same service as uber. They all take part in the tax avoidance but as far as I know they are least pay some. Some cabbies DO work by the hour. Some do take a fixed hours contract.

I would like to see the rest of the cab firms including black cabs embrace the technology but use it while incorporating min wage at the very least. You could work out the model to guarantee the workers X hours at above min wage.....Shame on those who just consume without regard to the workers.
I could be an arse and say I hope your industry is next...but that's not my style I hope it NEVER happens in your job.
What next rocket scientists on zero hours less than min wage ? ( I say rocket science as the population comeback us "it's not rocket science")


Sent from my Elephone P8000 using Tapatalk

[Bald Bouncer]

Uber is funded by venture capital, flouts workers rights and regulations, is able to have vastly cheaper fares as it is subsidising journeys so to drive out competition and get market share with the undoubted intention of screwing users once they have no alternative to return the investment, avoid their tax obligations, avoid reporting incidents of serious crime accusations against unregulated drivers, the drivers’ annual turnover rate is around 50 percent and driver background checks are virtually no existent but hey it's all about getting the cheapest ride just the same as getting stuff made in sweat shops by kids forget the moral or social implications I just want cheap as you can.

Just to add the Greyball is at best very sinister and at worst who knows a very disturbing deliberate feature implemented into the software, this is not so much something TFL has done as Uber has done to itself by refusing to abide by regulations and flouting rules and regulations thinking it can steamroller it's business model in and throw money at barriers in it's way.

[Over Carl]

I love workers standing up for themselves, and I think it's a massive shame union membership isn't as prevalent as it was years ago, and that they have had their powers weakened.

However that doesn't mean must always support the labour in an industrial dispute. For example, I supported the reasons for fire brigade and NHS strikes, but I have no sympathy for tube drivers.

Still haven't used Uber myself for similar reasons I don't shop at Sports Direct (i.e. moral/ethical reasons).

However I think with Uber there are multiple issues at play here. Yes there have been numerous examples of Uber forcing down wages of drivers. However I know someone who does a bit of Uber to top up his wages when needed and he seems content with the rates (well to be more accurate when we've discussed them sometimes some fares seem ridiculously low, some seem higher than we both would expect, and the app helps drivers to find areas with surge pricing so they can make more). Guy drives a 2012 Merc E Class (as a basic Uber cab, not XL as his car isn't new enough), and the numbers work for him so it can't be as bad as some people suggest.

Forgetting this one person's experience, London Black cabs have had it too good for too long. Here black cabs are the only people allowed to pick up on the street while minicabs need to be prebooked. Ask minicab drivers if they've ever been abused by black cab drivers if they have been prebooked to pickup from somewhere where there is also a black cab rank. Ask minicab drivers if they have ever had black cab drivers drive in a dangerous manner just to annoy/impede the minicab. Anyone who drives round will see that both minicabs and black cabs often pull dodgy manoveres that would earn Joe Public a ticket but for some bizarre reason police allow such behaviour because they are professional drivers (while truck drivers are expected to pay much more attention and behave as they are professional drivers). I mention both black cabs and minicabs do this, but black cabs seem to be the worst to me.

Even I was reading that when the London Low Emission Zone was introduced, there were pretty much no exemptions, not even for emergency vehicles (especially relevant for example for something like a tall ladder appliance that might barely get used so isn't replaced every few years), but somehow black cabs got an exemption to run filthy old ancient technology engines.

Also not many people know that black cabs have different tariffs for different situations. If people learn and pay attention, I remember it wasn't uncommon (maybe one in 10 journeys) I would see the cabbie try and sting me with a higher tariff than applicable.

I can't prove the definite link, but imho the black cabs became way too powerful and I am sure this is linked to the obscene rates they are allowed to charge. Then once black cabs were allowed to demand obscene pay, minicabs rode their coat tails. End result being minicab prices were ridiculous.

Whilst generally I agree with protecting worker's rights and pay, we also have to be realistic and accept new technologies will open up new job opportunities while closing or limiting others.

In addition black cab drivers aren't the saints they pretend to be. I also don't buy their safety nonsense. John Warboys was a black driver who got away with a lot. With Uber, there would have been a digital link between him and each of his victims which I suspect would have made him much easier to find. I haven't seen any evidence that extensive psychological screening is performed to prescreen black drivers to weed out potential rapists either which makes me wonder why they even spew such nonsense.

Simple observation is that while the British people do have a tendency to be dumb sheep, even they seem to have some elements of thought processes. Sports Direct has loads of bad press about workers conditions which hit their business hard. Uber has their business threatened and we have over half a million people sign a petition in one day. I don't think I've ever heard of such a response which says to me that Uber must be doing something right for a lot of people (or the alternatives must be doing something very wrong).

With regards to workers wages we have to consider a few things. Is it right that truck driving is worse paid and less regulated than driving a little car as a cab? Is it right that nurses make less than cab drivers? I agree with the principle that workers should defend their wages and I understand some people will argue that those other wages should go up rather than driver's wages going down. However there would have been a period when cars were new technology and deserved a premium wage, just like a person working with cutting edge technology would today. Cars have since become much more prevalent, and also become much more reliable (meaning much lower maintenance/repair costs and associated downtime). Shouldn't the consumer see any benefit from this, or should it just all benefit black cab driver? The knowledge they bang on so hard about as mentioned is a pointless, redundant and possibly even counter productive skill in todays world. If I spent two years refining my mental arthimatic, I can't see someone wanting to pay me say £20/ph instead of using a calculator or excel.

The thread has previously mentioned the next big game changer anyone can see from a mile off is automated driving. If drivers accept the skill they choose to depend on for a living is a fairly low level skill that nearly everyone else also has, then they can accept lower wages, and as automated cars come in, I can see a premium price for an automated car and a reasonable price for a human driven car so both can co-exist, until human driven cabs are ruled out due to safety issues. If they carry on with their current attitude they will all vanish as soon as automated cars are ready and legal.

Greyball I find very interesting. Part of me thinks it is worrying'/disturbing. However please remember in the course of a criminal investigation, the police can lie to you, then use information they gain from your response to this lie against you. If they can behave in such an underhand manner, I don't see anything wrong with avoiding ending up in such a situation.

Edit: I was wrong, black cab's aren't exempt from the London Low Emission Zone (this is more for vans/trucks). However they are exempt from the upcoming Ultra Low Emission Zone http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/04/new-ul...gines-6553744/

[GTI]

I’m glad it’s all over for Uber in London – and I work for them

The Guardian

As a driver, I enjoyed the early years. Then the company slashed fares in an attempt to crush its rivals, forcing us all to work longer hours for less pay

I’ve been an Uber driver for five years, so you’d expect me to be furious that Transport for London wants to stop the company operating in the capital. Not a bit of it.

I could not be happier with TFL’s ruling that Uber is not a “fit and proper” private car hire operator.

In the long run, drivers like me can only benefit. Yes, we’ll have to find other work, but the best of us won’t find that too hard as rival firms pick up the slack. Many of us have worked for minicab companies in the past, or still do shifts for them alongside work for Uber.


Uber’s model is perfect for customers, who have the convenience of being able to use an app to order a cab while still at home or sitting in a restaurant. Journeys are so cheap that if you’re travelling as a group you’ll sometimes save money by taking an Uber rather than a bus. What customers don’t understand is that we drivers have to work extremely long hours just to cover our overheads – which can lead to accidents as we become fatigued. Because we are self-employed, we don’t get holiday or sick pay. Every hour that we are off the road, we are not making money.

I enjoyed Uber’s early years, not least because I could work the hours I wanted. This was not possible with local minicab firms. And at first you could make a good living. But then Uber slashed prices to attract customers, and began recruiting on a massive scale to keep up with demand. Not only did we end up with more drivers working longer hours, for worse pay, but some of those drivers should never have been behind the wheel.

Just a month ago, the Metropolitan police accused Uber of failing to report sexual assaults by its drivers. As for the level of English … I have gone to Uber’s offices a few times and seen drivers signing up to work with translators beside them.

Uber’s strategy was always to dominate the London market by undercutting competitors, such as black cabs, Addison Lee and smaller local operators. Its overheads were low, as it was not paying VAT in the UK, and did not have a call centre. Backers including Goldman Sachs, BlackRock and other multibillion-dollar companies were happy for it to lose money in the short term, knowing that once it had crushed the competition it would be able to jack up its prices. After all, where else could customers turn?
That plan is now in tatters, unless Uber manages to overturn TfL’s decision.

I know there will be a backlash from customers who love Uber, but if they knew the truth about it they would think otherwise. How can you, as a customer, justify those expensive drinks you had in the bar but not be willing to pay a little extra to get home in the safety of a minicab or black cab?

Source

[Over Carl]

Journeys are so cheap that if you’re travelling as a group you’ll sometimes save money by taking an Uber rather than a bus.

Terrible comparison for a few reasons. Firstly, I've jumped in a black cab with friends for short journeys as it was cheaper and quicker than using a bus.

But the real killer for me when I think about public transport prices...... I can walk to the bus stop, wait for ages as the first bus didn't come, then the next one very late, end result is my face is in someone's armpit until I can get off. Then repeat the same at one or two tube stations, all while enduring the elements, and some shitty music some kid's playing on his phone, then walk to my final destination.

Or I can put some petrol in my 5.0 V8, drive from my door direct to my destination in superlative comfort with music of my choice and I am allowed to smoke a fag for less than the price of the bus. Add 4 passengers and luggage with multiple stops then the comparison becomes even more ridiculous.

[DavidF]

I love workers standing up for themselves, and I think it's a massive shame union membership isn't as prevalent as it was years ago, and that they have had their powers weakened.

However that doesn't mean must always support the labour in an industrial dispute. For example, I supported the reasons for fire brigade and NHS strikes, but I have no sympathy for tube drivers.

Still haven't used Uber myself for similar reasons I don't shop at Sports Direct (i.e. moral/ethical reasons).

However I think with Uber there are multiple issues at play here. Yes there have been numerous examples of Uber forcing down wages of drivers. However I know someone who does a bit of Uber to top up his wages when needed and he seems content with the rates (well to be more accurate when we've discussed them sometimes some fares seem ridiculously low, some seem higher than we both would expect, and the app helps drivers to find areas with surge pricing so they can make more). Guy drives a 2012 Merc E Class (as a basic Uber cab, not XL as his car isn't new enough), and the numbers work for him so it can't be as bad as some people suggest.

Forgetting this one person's experience, London Black cabs have had it too good for too long. Here black cabs are the only people allowed to pick up on the street while minicabs need to be prebooked. Ask minicab drivers if they've ever been abused by black cab drivers if they have been prebooked to pickup from somewhere where there is also a black cab rank. Ask minicab drivers if they have ever had black cab drivers drive in a dangerous manner just to annoy/impede the minicab. Anyone who drives round will see that both minicabs and black cabs often pull dodgy manoveres that would earn Joe Public a ticket but for some bizarre reason police allow such behaviour because they are professional drivers (while truck drivers are expected to pay much more attention and behave as they are professional drivers). I mention both black cabs and minicabs do this, but black cabs seem to be the worst to me.

Even I was reading that when the London Low Emission Zone was introduced, there were pretty much no exemptions, not even for emergency vehicles (especially relevant for example for something like a tall ladder appliance that might barely get used so isn't replaced every few years), but somehow black cabs got an exemption to run filthy old ancient technology engines.

Also not many people know that black cabs have different tariffs for different situations. If people learn and pay attention, I remember it wasn't uncommon (maybe one in 10 journeys) I would see the cabbie try and sting me with a higher tariff than applicable.

I can't prove the definite link, but imho the black cabs became way too powerful and I am sure this is linked to the obscene rates they are allowed to charge. Then once black cabs were allowed to demand obscene pay, minicabs rode their coat tails. End result being minicab prices were ridiculous.

Whilst generally I agree with protecting worker's rights and pay, we also have to be realistic and accept new technologies will open up new job opportunities while closing or limiting others.

In addition black cab drivers aren't the saints they pretend to be. I also don't buy their safety nonsense. John Warboys was a black driver who got away with a lot. With Uber, there would have been a digital link between him and each of his victims which I suspect would have made him much easier to find. I haven't seen any evidence that extensive psychological screening is performed to prescreen black drivers to weed out potential rapists either which makes me wonder why they even spew such nonsense.

Simple observation is that while the British people do have a tendency to be dumb sheep, even they seem to have some elements of thought processes. Sports Direct has loads of bad press about workers conditions which hit their business hard. Uber has their business threatened and we have over half a million people sign a petition in one day. I don't think I've ever heard of such a response which says to me that Uber must be doing something right for a lot of people (or the alternatives must be doing something very wrong).

They are doing something right. Providing cab journeys at unrealistic rates. Simply to drive out competition so that in 5-10 years time they will have a monopoly and charge what they like. By that time there will be no competition. Supermarkets were famous for it.
I have nothing against the technology. It could be worked much better without ripping the worker off. By all means tackle the black cabs dominance.....But do it within the spirit of the law.
Bigger than that though.....let's say we all "pretend" to be self employed....How many billions will that cost the taxman ? Who do you think will pay the shortfall ?
Nobody likes paying tax....But tax and employment law's are being totally abused here. Expensive licences are being circumnavigated.....
This is not anti technology. It's a call for a level playing field. The taxman don't like it. The employment tribunals don't like it. The court don't like it. And the government don't like it.
Surely you have to take some of the points on board.
Give it 20 years and it will be a moot point as they will all be driverless. I can accept that as that's technology at work. People will move on to other jobs just as they always have. Don't see many horse shit pickers on the roads these days....we evolve and move on. Just make sure we do so orderly and fairly and safely, not too much to ask is it ?

Sent from my Elephone P8000 using Tapatalk

[Bald Bouncer]

I love workers standing up for themselves, and I think it's a massive shame union membership isn't as prevalent as it was years ago, and that they have had their powers weakened.

However that doesn't mean must always support the labour in an industrial dispute. For example, I supported the reasons for fire brigade and NHS strikes, but I have no sympathy for tube drivers.

Still haven't used Uber myself for similar reasons I don't shop at Sports Direct (i.e. moral/ethical reasons).

However I think with Uber there are multiple issues at play here. Yes there have been numerous examples of Uber forcing down wages of drivers. However I know someone who does a bit of Uber to top up his wages when needed and he seems content with the rates (well to be more accurate when we've discussed them sometimes some fares seem ridiculously low, some seem higher than we both would expect, and the app helps drivers to find areas with surge pricing so they can make more). Guy drives a 2012 Merc E Class (as a basic Uber cab, not XL as his car isn't new enough), and the numbers work for him so it can't be as bad as some people suggest.

Forgetting this one person's experience, London Black cabs have had it too good for too long. Here black cabs are the only people allowed to pick up on the street while minicabs need to be prebooked. Ask minicab drivers if they've ever been abused by black cab drivers if they have been prebooked to pickup from somewhere where there is also a black cab rank. Ask minicab drivers if they have ever had black cab drivers drive in a dangerous manner just to annoy/impede the minicab. Anyone who drives round will see that both minicabs and black cabs often pull dodgy manoveres that would earn Joe Public a ticket but for some bizarre reason police allow such behaviour because they are professional drivers (while truck drivers are expected to pay much more attention and behave as they are professional drivers). I mention both black cabs and minicabs do this, but black cabs seem to be the worst to me.

Even I was reading that when the London Low Emission Zone was introduced, there were pretty much no exemptions, not even for emergency vehicles (especially relevant for example for something like a tall ladder appliance that might barely get used so isn't replaced every few years), but somehow black cabs got an exemption to run filthy old ancient technology engines.

Also not many people know that black cabs have different tariffs for different situations. If people learn and pay attention, I remember it wasn't uncommon (maybe one in 10 journeys) I would see the cabbie try and sting me with a higher tariff than applicable.

I can't prove the definite link, but imho the black cabs became way too powerful and I am sure this is linked to the obscene rates they are allowed to charge. Then once black cabs were allowed to demand obscene pay, minicabs rode their coat tails. End result being minicab prices were ridiculous.

Whilst generally I agree with protecting worker's rights and pay, we also have to be realistic and accept new technologies will open up new job opportunities while closing or limiting others.

In addition black cab drivers aren't the saints they pretend to be. I also don't buy their safety nonsense. John Warboys was a black driver who got away with a lot. With Uber, there would have been a digital link between him and each of his victims which I suspect would have made him much easier to find. I haven't seen any evidence that extensive psychological screening is performed to prescreen black drivers to weed out potential rapists either which makes me wonder why they even spew such nonsense.

Simple observation is that while the British people do have a tendency to be dumb sheep, even they seem to have some elements of thought processes. Sports Direct has loads of bad press about workers conditions which hit their business hard. Uber has their business threatened and we have over half a million people sign a petition in one day. I don't think I've ever heard of such a response which says to me that Uber must be doing something right for a lot of people (or the alternatives must be doing something very wrong).

I think you hit on an argument I have seen a lot and consider it a separate issue, black cabs, drivers, prices attitude, drivers no doubt the list goes on have issues and a lot of people are pissed at them and feel ripped off but this is a separate argument and for me it is like being caught speeding and moaning someone went past them who was also speeding, Uber are not abiding by the regulations these regulations are put in place to protect the public, to use an analogy if nursery was employing an assistant without proper checks people would be up in arms and they would not be abiding by the regulations but in this case it's all about saving money regardless.

The bigger picture for me in this is they are trying to buy the trade and kill competition to then turn round with a monopoly and screw the customers with no choice but accept, this is considered good business practice and joe muggins allows himself to get screwed that I don't like but it isn't against regulations but many things they are doing are, they are actively hindering and blocking crimes from being properly reported, they have a greyball feature in their application that has been used to block regulators, police, council officials from using their service which is extremely sinister regardless of the counter claims for it's use which even sound like bullshit, they don't properly check the drivers.

Half a million people thinking with their wallets not their heads, conscience or any moral or social values, would I want any of my daughters getting in an Uber car knowing there wasn't any proper checks done on the drivers, fuck no, I accept that they could be at risk from a black cab driver but it's about danger limitation the whole reason for checks in the first place.

[Rhinoz]

Also not many people know that black cabs have different tariffs for different situations. If people learn and pay attention, I remember it wasn't uncommon (maybe one in 10 journeys) I would see the cabbie try and sting me with a higher tariff than applicable.

I can't prove the definite link, but imho the black cabs became way too powerful and I am sure this is linked to the obscene rates they are allowed to charge. Then once black cabs were allowed to demand obscene pay, minicabs rode their coat tails. End result being minicab prices were ridiculous.

As the regulator, TfL is responsible for reviewing and setting taxi fares and tariffs. This page provides details of the tariff rates, and the times when they apply.

SOURCE