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  1. #1
    DF Jedi Zippeyrude's Avatar
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    Default Is this a reason BTC will fail?

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    Apparently the transaction costs are unsustainable and this will likely lead to BTC crash... Any views?

    Thanks to Zippeyrude

    Over Carl (4th January 2018) 


  2. #2
    DF Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippeyrude View Post
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Apparently the transaction costs are unsustainable and this will likely lead to BTC crash... Any views?
    I think It will eventually have its crown taken by any number of the newer coins that are much better technologically. Cant see it happening for years though and I think Bitcoin will still be around in some shape or form for decades to come.
    It's a bit of a misleading claim tbh
    To claim Bitcoin uses the power output of Bulgaria might be true but that is collectively for the entire world using the electricity to run its P2P network as it is of course a global currency.
    How much power would it take to run the worlds fiat currencies if you added them up. GBP, USD, EURO, HKD and so on. The printing, the transactions in shops, the banks ??? I reckon it will be a LOT more than bitcoins. Then you have the argument of market cap etc but you get my point

    Bit of a bullshitty attention grabbing headline imho

  3. #3
    DF Super Moderator Over Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    Dunno, to be honest I haven't read into it hard, but I have also thought to myself it is a totally unsustainable system with that fundamental flaw.

    Lets imagine the amount of processing power needed to verify one BTC transaction (which is only going to double, double, and keep doubling).

    Now lets imagine we needed this much processing power to handle every single financial transaction.

    Now lets imagine the sheer number of financial transactions on a global basis. Not just the banks but every single transaction we all make.

    Now lets imagine the amount of energy that would be required to process all these transactions. Even if you just want to drop 5 pence into a tramp/busker's pile there will still be energy costs using altcoins.

    I'm guessing by now the fundamental flaw should be very obvious. I honestly reckon one day when everyone wisens up to this everyone will abandon BTC in a massive rush leaving no-one to verify transactions for those wanting to cash out.

    Now I will admit I know FA about making money from coins (my only venture into it was buying 3 XRP on New Years Eve for a laugh).

    However my prediction is that long term BTC will go to 0 and people won't be able to cash out. However until this fatal flaw is really acknowledged by a vast amount of BTC users there is still money to be made from BTC.

    At the end of the day a BTC has no intrinsic value and is worth 0 unless people believe it has a value. Sadly I can't say anything better about the pound notes we have in our pockets.

  4. #4
    DF Super Moderator Over Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    Estimates are around 77-215 KWh to process 1 single bitcoin transaction. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea, or even thinks it is sustainable must have no idea of the concept of limited resources, and no idea of how much energy the world can produce at the moment or the efforts that would be required to implement a power network that could sustain a bitcoin network comparable to our current banking network.

    I've been saying for years that our infrastructure isn't even capable of supporting electric cars that the government was trying to pump, and I only saw news about this last week.

    Just to put things in context, 1 BTC transaction at 215 KWh could fill two Tesla car batteries and we are nowhere near being able to support a nation with a serious proportion of electric vehicles. Considering that purchasing fuel is only one of millions of reasons people perform financial transactions, I find any attempt to suggest we could ditch our pounds and use altcoins (especially BTC) as one of the most absurd jokes I have ever heard (unless they are talking about in a few hundred years when power networks have had their capacities increased by a few thousand times and we have much more efficient computers).

    I'm not saying there is no money to be made. But when everyone wakes up and realises what an absurd idea this is and the market responds, all the miners will jump ship meaning there is no way to cash out any BTC a person may hold at that time.

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    Last edited by Over Carl; 4th January 2018 at 11:44 PM.

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    DF Moderator {{909}}'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    total disclaimer. I know FA about BTC other then trying to understand wtf they are from a few youtube vids and still not being none the wiser but...

    Couldn't some quantum leap in G/CPU power also fuck the whole thing up? I've seen people build 70 1080gtx cards into arrays costing $100,000's to grind coins, if intel dropped a CPU that eclipsed that, wouldn't the value of a coin decimate?
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    DF Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by {{909}} View Post
    total disclaimer. I know FA about BTC other then trying to understand wtf they are from a few youtube vids and still not being none the wiser but...

    Couldn't some quantum leap in G/CPU power also fuck the whole thing up? I've seen people build 70 1080gtx cards into arrays costing $100,000's to grind coins, if intel dropped a CPU that eclipsed that, wouldn't the value of a coin decimate?
    Yes they do believe that Quantum computing (if / when it appears) could fuck things up completely.
    This is already an issue being implemented in newer coins which "claim" to be Quantum resistant. Not sure how this is done, not bothered reading up on it yet, but it is obviously something of concern in the community.

  7. #7
    DF Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Over Carl View Post
    Estimates are around 77-215 KWh to process 1 single bitcoin transaction. Anyone who thinks this is a good idea, or even thinks it is sustainable must have no idea of the concept of limited resources, and no idea of how much energy the world can produce at the moment or the efforts that would be required to implement a power network that could sustain a bitcoin network comparable to our current banking network.

    I've been saying for years that our infrastructure isn't even capable of supporting electric cars that the government was trying to pump, and I only saw news about this last week.

    Just to put things in context, 1 BTC transaction at 215 KWh could fill two Tesla car batteries and we are nowhere near being able to support a nation with a serious proportion of electric vehicles. Considering that purchasing fuel is only one of millions of reasons people perform financial transactions, I find any attempt to suggest we could ditch our pounds and use altcoins (especially BTC) as one of the most absurd jokes I have ever heard (unless they are talking about in a few hundred years when power networks have had their capacities increased by a few thousand times and we have much more efficient computers).

    I'm not saying there is no money to be made. But when everyone wakes up and realises what an absurd idea this is and the market responds, all the miners will jump ship meaning there is no way to cash out any BTC a person may hold at that time.

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    (Multi quote wouldn't work)

    This is an issue being addressed in an upcoming release to Bitcoin I believe. I cant remember the details tbh but remember reading about a change in the way blocks are mined and then in the future processed.
    This is one of the reasons that has caused the hard forks such as, Bitcoin Cash & Bitcoin Gold, they are much, much less power hungry.

    Thanks to piggzy

    Over Carl (5th January 2018) 


  8. #8
    DF Super Moderator Over Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    Nice, I'm not in the scene enough to know about that

    Although that leaves me with two questions....

    How does this fit in with the whole doubling difficulty thing?
    Does this mean that people without large ASIC setups and free power have a chance to profitably mine BTC again after the change?

    Thanks to Over Carl

    piggzy (5th January 2018) 


  9. #9
    DF Moderator piggzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is this a reason BTC will fail?

    Quote Originally Posted by Over Carl View Post
    Nice, I'm not in the scene enough to know about that

    Although that leaves me with two questions....

    How does this fit in with the whole doubling difficulty thing?
    Does this mean that people without large ASIC setups and free power have a chance to profitably mine BTC again after the change?
    This is the same thing I wondered. Many people or already saying Bitcoin Cash is going to take its crown due to big improvements in the network, time will tell.
    Bitcoin was a great idea at the time but in 2018 technologically is a piece of shit. It must die at some point and be replaced but so many people are invested in it and invested big this is going to be a very long time away in my humble opinion. There are many more far superior and even instant coins out there with a fraction of the overheads. Some upcoming coins potentially based on the new Hashgraph tech yet to be released might make all the blockchain coins look shit.

    I know its been around almost a decade now but I think the whole crypto currency idea is in its infancy really.

    IMHO mining bitcoin is over. It is said that massive consortium's in china mass mine with asics with almost free electricity and nobody can compete. With the power costs in the west we are wasting our time.
    That is reason for the Bitgoin Gold fork, it uses a similar crypto to ZCash which cannot be mined with asics. It also addressed some of the network issues in the fork too. This hands the mining back to the GPU brigade.

    Edit:

    If you are looking to mine XMR (Monero) is by far the most profitable coin to mine at the moments and has been for months. It is simply CPU or GPU mined (or both) if you really want Bitcoin you can mine Monero and then exchange to Bitcoin. It is more profitable to mine that and exchange than to mine BTC directly atm.

    AMD GPU's are the best but Nvidia still very good too.
    Last edited by piggzy; 5th January 2018 at 04:27 PM.

    Thanks to piggzy

    Over Carl (5th January 2018) 


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