@ Wideon & Rap re:http://www.data-interfaces.co.uk

[FR15K]

if you start to quote ' your stautory rights ' as part of the 'sales of goods act' they'll start flapping and just pay up.

Yeah I borrowed it from one of your posts lol

I also see Wideons side of the case and I hope a compromise can be reached.

HM

[GASCAN]

Just want to ask WideOn why he is calling me an arsehole and why all the insults? I am a customer ffs I gave all my personal details to your website, credit Card number and all, no way can you be trusted with these if you threaten legal action againt me for using one of your products.

Thats to say then that you can threaten leagal action agains all customers who bough from you? So you think you have them by the balls do ya? And wtf is this illegal use business all about? Did I say to you in my email what I was gona use the Rom10 for? Did I say where I got the Rom10 from? Did I say who owned it?

Also What else did I buy from your company along with the order? Yes a FUNCARD 4 & Gold PCB Wafer card, so is it illegal as another forum member pointed out to program one of them?

You have all of a sudden said that it is illegal to read or write to Rom10 cards, but its not any more different than reading or writing to a FunCard 4 or Gold wafer card as stated, Gold Cards were used to hack ITV Digital, Funcards are now used to hack Digi cable so get down off your moral high horse and do something about your mistake. And lets put things into perspective, Nearly EVERYONE I hae spoken too who ordered their programmer over the past week have said its got 3.58Mhz crystal, so its not just one or two customers as you say its mabye dozens are depending on how many programmers you sold its about 100+ as no one would be any wiser as to why their programmer don't run for the purposes they bought it and like me they took it for granted that the product was the product that they bought.

Everything that has been said n both forums about you and your so called company is the truth, you are unwilling to offer any kind of customer support, and the EASY way out for you is to send a 70p Crystal to unhappy customers?

WTF how am I going to fit a crystal to a £30 programmer and I got no experience at soldering? As you have said to me its a 2min job so what is the BIG problem with you taking it back and soldering it on, or can you not do it yourself? Also where do I stand if I do attempt to fit the crystal and arse the job up? Are you willing to replace the programmer?

Lastly the whole thing which pisses me off is the way you are blackmailing me and other customers by saying that you will report us to some organisation, all I got to say is where is your proof? Where is anyone's proof? What will happen they will say to me where did you get your goods and ill happly give them your website and say that guy supplied the programmer and crystal, who is in the shit then?

Also as stated, you have have made hundreds of posts in a hacking forum and pretend you know nothing about it? Also I love the way your website changes from day to day, you thought you could get away with the one where it said "Modified Zeus with 3.68 Crystal" to change it to "Fitted by customer easy install" Now its changed again? FFS make up your mind, your a dishonest trader, you deserve to have all this stuff said against you and I HOPE the other forum members read this stuff about your site and decide not to order as its all you deserve, why didn't you inform all of us customers who ordered the Zeus last week that it didn't have the 3.68Mhz crystal fitted? As you are so good at editing your website (they don't call you the webmaster of the site for nothing ) why could you not have put a simple message on the website to say that you have made a mistake etc etc and will sort it out? Instead you left it upto the customer to suffer the headache of sorting out the problem, and solving the problem for countless other forum members who were having difficulties with their programmer.

Also I have stated in my emails to you that I am using the programmer to program fun cards so thats illegal to then yea? And if so then even if you supply the 3.68Mhz crystal to these customers you are breaking the law, whatever way you look at it in all of this you are WRONG!

Stop trying to blaim your lame ass excuses on customers and sort the problem out.

Gas.

[logicgod]

I think the point that everyone seems to be missing is that ok all the items can be used for illegal use- funcards,goldies programmers etc, totally agree on that. Howether there is a difference to simply supplying say a funcard with no questions to supplying a funcard after someone has told you they will be hacking telewest with it- to use one analogy.

From what i can see this is a mess, but it does seem to me that people that are approaching wideon sensibly with e-mails such as " got my programmer it has the incorrect crystal on it please could you send out a 3.68" are getting sorted out and wideon is acting 100% within the law. Unfortunately (and i do understand both sides of the story) it appears that some people have been e-mailing wideon with complaints such as "it won't hack my rom 10 card" etc. now how can he legally help these people? they have just informed him there intent and he would be entering into a conspiracy if he continued supporting that particular customer.

I quote Fr1sk:

Yes Mark but I am sure that you are well aware that if that was the case then he should also remove the other things on his site that can be MISSUSED.

Yes ok your right there m8, but he can legally sell these items all day long as long as he is not informed by a customer that they intend to use item for illegal use, then he would be breaking the law and would probably have F.A.C.T running all over him.

[Tought You]

just found this on modshack


* removed by xdam (if you want to talk to me my pm is open) *


now u can phone em and give the hosting company some stick.

[GASCAN]

Originally posted by logicgod
I think the point that everyone seems to be missing is that ok all the items can be used for illegal use- funcards,goldies programmers etc, totally agree on that. Howether there is a difference to simply supplying say a funcard with no questions to supplying a funcard after someone has told you they will be hacking telewest with it- to use one analogy.

From what i can see this is a mess, but it does seem to me that people that are approaching wideon sensibly with e-mails such as " got my programmer it has the incorrect crystal on it please could you send out a 3.68" are getting sorted out and wideon is acting 100% within the law. Unfortunately (and i do understand both sides of the story) it appears that some people have been e-mailing wideon with complaints such as "it won't hack my rom 10 card" etc. now how can he legally help these people? they have just informed him there intent and he would be entering into a conspiracy if he continued supporting that particular customer.

I quote Fr1sk:



Yes ok your right there m8, but he can legally sell these items all day long as long as he is not informed by a customer that they intend to use item for illegal use, then he would be breaking the law and would probably have F.A.C.T running all over him.

Mate you are misunderstanding my point, Who said to him that I was unable to "Hack" my Rom10 card? I merely put it to him that I was unable to read or write to Rom10 cards, I didn't say who, where and what the Rom10 card was for, no mention of hacking, for all you know it could be for my security system as I live in N Ireland after all

WideOn is making assumptions about what I am intending to use the progrmmer and Rom10 for, I have not mentioned HACK, or the words NTL or Telewest in ANY of my emails sent to him and the moderators which I sent ALL emails both sent and recieved can hopefully vouch for this.

The other point is, I have 2 programmrs fitted with 3.58mhz crystal as is, why would I be stupid enough to order a 3rd? Unlike some people am not made of money and can't afford to give it away to ppl like WideOn, that is why I am so "Hacked" off about all of this, and he thinks the easy way out of it is to offer ppl a 3.68Mhz crystal to fit themselves? What kind of service is that?

Tell me this if you went to a Vauxhall Dealer and bought a NEW Corsa then 2 weeks later the Vauxhall ppl realise that there is a fault with the car and some components need replacing, what is the proper thing for them to do/ The RECALL all cars, and do the work or modifications to the car themselves, they DON'T send the parts to the customer and say FIT THEM YOURSELF do they?

I fully understand that if I had said to WideOn in my email that I want a new programmer because I can't hack my NTL/Telewest Rom10 card then fair enough that is wrong, but the point is I NEVER said that what I said was:

"Hi there, Just want to let you know that the Zeus Programmer I ordered with
3.68Mhz crystal turn up but it doesn't have a 3.68Mhz crystal on it it has
the 3.58Mhz which i DID NOT order. I have been wondering why for the past 3
days I am unable to read or write to Rom10 Cards properly and it turns out
that when I asked a forum member from Digital-Forums that he told me to
check the crystal there should be one blue 3.68 & one blue 6.00 but I looked
at mine and one is 3.58 while the other is the 6.00Mhz crystal."

Now you tell what is wrong with that? What is the difference in reading and writing to Rom10 than reading or writing to FunCard 4 or Gold Card?

[logicgod]

Ok m8 i totally understand where u are coming from, but is there a legal use for rom 10 cards? i am not sure? but i know of many uses for say a gold card.

Also i have looked through there product description of the zeus and it doesnt in any way shape or form say that it reads or writes a rom 10 card?

Oh well i'm sure this will get sorted eventually and i do really see both sides of the story but do understand the position wideon is in.

Personally if i had had a problem with a company selling this kit i.e wrong crystal there is no way i would approach company by mentioning rom 10 cards, that is just madness.

[plug1]

Im my humble opinion wideon your a hypocrite and a wouldbe grass

And i personaly wouldent trust someone who cant string 5 words together correctly ( the more you post the dafter you look ) .

You knew when you had the `bright idea `to sell these progers wot ppl wanted them for , and to say otherwise is an insult to you`r own inteligance .

plug1

[Wefty]

The bottom line is this, first take a look at the original advertisement here:-

http://www.modshack.co.uk/dizeus.htm

If the consumer ordered the Zeus multi programmer modified with 3.68 mhz crystal, and received the standard version instead, then he has a right to a full refund or replacement in accordance with EU consumer law.

If the vendor refuses to act within the law then the consumer should complain to his credit card company with a view to securing a refund from the cc company, who would then seek a refund from the vendor.

The vendor will always lose in these situations, and his credit card debit facility may also be revoked as a result.

It does not matter what follows the transaction regarding potential usage, if item 'x' was order and item 'y' was sent, then it is down to the trader to either replace the item or give a full refund.

Wefty

[FR15K]

Yes ok your right there m8, but he can legally sell these items all day long as long as he is not informed by a customer that they intend to use item for illegal use, then he would be breaking the law and would probably have F.A.C.T running all over him.

OK if that is the case then I am informing him that all the cards and programmers as well as the dataloggers he is selling can be used for illegal purposes and I expect him to follow suit with them and remove them from sale from his site as fair is fair aint it.

I see no differance from selling a programmer with a 3.68mhz xtal than selling one with a 3.58mhz xtal as tbh they are both legal unless the person who buys it uses it for ilegal purposes which tbh 99.99999999% of the members viewing this forum will do.

Saying change the xtal is not a fix either as you have to also compensate for the values of the other components on the pcb that may not be speicficly designed to work with the 3.68mhz xtal thus causing it not to work as has been shown to be the case quite a few times in reading members posts on both here and modshack.

In short either refund or replace with the correct product,as it was advertised and people expect to receive it. If the case is not so then they have a right to report this to thier credit card company as fraudulently gaining money by deception as that is what it is.

HM

[Raptor]

Originally posted by FR15K
Selling a programmer with 3.68 mhz xtal is by no mean ilegal, if thats the case then Rap please dont sell any more cos the thought of you behined bars is too much for my weak heart it realy is lol FFS

of course - who else to banter with

ive only just seen this thread - please no one associate me with any of this - I was simply asked to post an ad for wideon selling programmers

his sales / purchases are nothing to do with me

now play nice everyone !

[Raptor]

Originally posted by boycie43uk


Paul never runs away and he has respect from everyone.

this is very true thanks

oh and I wouldnt say EVERYONE hehe

[boycie43uk]

Originally posted by Raptor
this is very true thanks

oh and I wouldnt say EVERYONE hehe

Ok the fat one dont like you, but dont get to upset LOL

[BT]

Originally posted by Raptor
this is very true thanks

oh and I wouldnt say EVERYONE hehe

where did u get hold of my irc chat logs ? LMAO

[FR15K]

Quote taken from a post from Modshack...

what actually is the physical difference between the 3.58 and the 3.68 crystal? is it written on it or a different colour? i don't even know where to look for it.
on the other subject, i too have complained bitterly to data interfaces about my progger not working. they have been anything but helpful. for instance in the subject line of the e-mail i sent them it said "3.68 zeus programmer". they replied and the first thing they asked was what progger i was using. the last e-mail i got was [to me] threatening and told me my details were to be sent to the right people and not to e-mail them again!!! tossers. up to now i have spent £35 on the progger and post and another £35 on 3 different psu's, none of which will do a rom 10 card. pissed off? damn right.
if you read wideon's posting on d-f, it sounds as though he works for them, he even offered raptor a freebie if he wanted one to try. and they say they don't condone the proggers use on nagra cards? waste of space the lot of them.
borrowashboy.

U see it aint just one person who has had this reply it seems to be anyone who asks about why they have been sold the wrong thing.

No many will know myself and Rap have had a checkered history but I WILL give him his due here and say that he does sell what he says hes gonna sell and does deliver the goods. In all my slagging of Paul and Neo I have never EVER known them to threaten to send details to and I quote"The right people".

As far as the bit about paul being sent a freebie, I get offers of freebies all the time some I may take some I may decline but TBH I dont realy think Paul needs a freebie programmer somehow ? do you ?

HM

[borrowashboy]

fri5k [if that's your real name ], it was the hypocracy of the bloke that pissed me off. in one sentence he's offering zeus proggers to people with the 3.68 crystal fitted and in the next he's saying he won't condone anything illegal and he now seems to have washed his hands of the whole thing. by the way, i ordered a 3.68 which came labelled as such, the mail confirming my order said it was 3.68, but now i find it is a 3.58. i ordered it off the original advert which advertised both crystals. so really i've been ripped off, as what i ordered hasn't come.
borrowashboy.

[ABCMan]

Originally posted by teachme

Domain Name:
data-interfaces.co.uk

Registrant:
Wideon Media

Registrant's Address:
Nelson Mandela House
Peckham
East London
SE15 1NM
GB

ROFPML

Someone has been watching only fools and horses, isn't that delboys addy?

[Raptor]

Originally posted by FR15K

No many will know myself and Rap have had a checkered history but I WILL give him his due here and say that he does sell what he says hes gonna sell and does deliver the goods. In all my slagging of Paul and Neo I have never EVER known them to threaten to send details to and I quote"The right people".

Thanks for that HM

I am feeling disillusioned that I'm being tarred with the same brush here after reading some posts. HM knows I'm NOTHING to do with this - we even discussed which programmers he thought I should manufacture to sell on DF for around £20 - £25.

I only posted the advert (also for another site) as many were asking for a good priced programmer that did the job. Wideon told me the Zeus was good and that he'd change the crystal to 3.68 as that was what everyone wanted now for obvious reasons.

I'm somewhat feeling a bit guilty here as the customers have been dealt with very shoddily and they were probably referred to Wideon by my DF post.

here's what I'm personally going to do. I'm going to investigate what the best tool fro the job is - get a few hundred made myself and sell them through DF or NEO as I've always done with A1 service and support. I'm sorry some of you have had trouble indirectly from a recommendation I gave - I'll simply not do it again.

If any of you have any recommendations for what kit I should offer - please post in here and ill dedicate my time tomorrow to get something decent on our shelves at a decent price (certainley less than £25)

rap

[Bald Bouncer]

I have dealt with Raptor many times and he has always kept his word, always delivered what he say's and quality is always spot on so I have no doubt what so ever he would not point anyone to a product that wasn't what it said or didn't do what it claimed if he knew this was the case.

[GASCAN]

Even though I ws ripped off, threatened and insulted publically on forums by "Dick-Interfaces" I would never blaim any of it on Rap/Digital-Forums/Forum Members of both DF & Modshack for recommending the Zeus. I cme across data-interfaces website when browsing Modshack and I mean if you look at the data-interfaces website, they look professional enough and the advert slap bang right in the middle of the first page for a "Modified Zeus Programmer with 3.68Mhz crystal fitted" was exactly what I and countles others were looking for so I purchased, no one forced me to make the purchase so no one but myself to blaim.

Just wish now I had of waited for Rap to sort his Programmers out as without doubt I would have bought from him, have ordered parts from http://www.playstationmods.com and have had no problems at all with them, very good service highly recomended.

Just hope in the future Wideon don't get the chance to take advantage of a good opportunity and cash in while he can, and rip off customers, just gld his scam was sussed out early on before a hundred more customers had the same problem.

[boycie43uk]

Thanks Raptor i like the idea
As you said you had nothing to do with this except post an advert, this offer will help a lot of peeps out, but we still have the problem with Wideon and he seems to have underground and hope it all goes away.
HM made him an offer to join Modshack and he seems to scared to take Hairy up on his offer.

can you please post same info over @ the shack for the members that are not in DF.
Ta Boycie

AS HM & BB say raptor can be trusted 100 %
and has f**k all to do with this mess.