bio fuel, cooking oil fuel ?

**rudey** · 13th September 2005

ive heard that this stuff is cheap and u can get it cheaper without it being called fuel, anyone seen it anywhere /use it?/any good?

**Lee Macro** · 13th September 2005

They had a bit on the last series of Top Gear on something like this. They had a litre of cooking oil with a teaspoon of meths in a diesel Volvo and it ran perfect. Only problem they had is you could smell what the oil was used for out of the exhaust.

Only works on diesels mind you.

**casio** · 13th September 2005

they only added the parafin to make it taxable you can run cooking oil straight from the bottle, yeah you can smell a bit of a chip shop smell but mixing it with diesel normally masks the smell,

cas

**danthescan** · 13th September 2005

Its been around for years ,do a google and read all about it, and it is a fuel so the bl**dy goverment get thier cut just the same. Only drawback is the car smelling like a chipvan LOL

or a kebeb shop.

**Phreakster** · 13th September 2005

Running a diesel car on fresh vegetable oil will damaged the engine, it needs to be used oil (ie heated up to 90 -100 degrees and then left for a week) don't ask me why im not a scientist, it just works. Not forgetting a bit of white spirit to thin the oil down.

**cosmicma** · 13th September 2005

it works a treat but then again so does red diesel
there's a tax levy on bio fuel ( vegetable oil ) just the same as there is on any other fuel but the problem with using vegy oil without paying tax is they can smell you coming ( literaly ) at least with red they have to dip you and the penalty is the same if your caught

the other thing about using vegy oil is it can damage the fuel pump on some diesels because it is slightly thicker than normal diesel ( fords i think ) it also caramelises on the valves leaving a deposit that over long periods of use will damage the valves ( something to do with the polyunsaturates in the oil ) ive tried it but not over a long period of time i used to mix half n half ( diesel n vegy )
it was a bit disturbing first thing in the morning the engine would rattle like fcuk for a few seconds but after that it ran fine with no noticable increrase or decrease in power but you could tell by the smell what you was running on so for me it was worse than using red and red is cheaper

**rudey** · 13th September 2005

good ole red

**fireman2203** · 13th September 2005

My mate runs his 406 on waste chip oil and has done for long time. I service it for him and change the fuel filter every service but never see any residue or problems what so ever.

I know he brought the machine for mixing the chemical u add 2nd hand and he is registered with the customs and exercise. He buys the chemical (i cant remember what its called but you have to show you are registered to buy it) and then mixes it with the waste chip oil in 100L batches. He then leaves it to stand for 1 hour and creams off some waste that seperates from the oil mix. then he put it in the car and bingo runs a dream and has done for 60K miles at least. He pays 24p per litre to the customs chaps but every so often he has a 100L bad batch that he throws away :whistle. Nice lady visits him once a year and checks his paperwork is in order and thats the only hassle he has.

**shaggy64** · 13th September 2005

Cosmicma is spot on when he says the penaltys are the same for running on red but for damaging your engine nah i have been using asda value vegetable oil for years and it dont do any damage at all in fact its better for the engine my mates car snapped a cam belt and after stripping the engine down found that they were no carbon deposits in fact it looked like new and this engine had done 90000 miles.
The only down side is the smell its horrible if you are behind some one its a dead giveaway so its better using red but asda value vegi oil is cheaper!!!
Asda oil goes straight in with no addatives nessasary!!!
People used to say red damages your engine but thats bull as well ask yourself whats red for der engines just tax free
what may damage your diesel pump is kerosene which has no lubracation properties at all but people who use this just add cheap engine oil at around 2.5litres per 205 litres but again its a waste of time if you get dipped you still get the same tax bill its not a fine you just pay your tax which for afirst offence will be �500 get caught again and say good bye to your car!!!! and the back tax as well.

ASDAS VALUE VEGETABLE OIL IN 3LITRES IS THE BEST AND CHEAPEST AROUND DONT WAST YOUR TIME LOOKING.!!!!

**cosmicma** · 15th September 2005

@shaggy64
i used tesco rapeseed oil ( probably the same stuff as the asda offering )
the problem is not with carbon build up

here's a snippet from another forum explaing the downside of using veg oil straight off the shelf

"origionally posted by Merlin"

I work for Shell and I'm a former Senior Development Chemist in the field of lubricants - I've worked in the oil industry 23 years and here's my view on it as a chemist.

I am not saying this because I work for Shell, it's simply because the risk is too great in modern high compression diesel car engines.

Most cooking oil is based on Maize Oil or Refined Rapeseed oil, both of which contain polyunsaturated hydrocarbons - good for the heart but not for the engine as I will explain. Polyunsaturated means that instead of loads of single C-C carbon bonds there are C+C double bonds.

Under the temperatures and pressure of combustion, these bonds can be broken and the long chain molecules which are unburnt join up and form even longer chain polymer type materials - this will display itself as gums and varnishes on the piston rings and the compression will fall off (These bonds are the same as Linseed oil which is used in varnishes - this is the same as when Linseed oil polymerises to form varnish - the same effect will happen in the engine).

Apart from sticking piston rings, it may also cause bore polishing which will definitely cause the compression to go off and the bores will need to be re-honed to remove this.

Cooking oil may have a higher calorific value than diesel (more energy to release) but the risks outweigh the benefits.

There, that's the science bit over for now.

thanks to merlin who origionaly posted this

there's also an explenation about the effects veg oil has on modern fuel pumps but basicly it says that it will eventually make the fuel pump go out of tolerance ( shorten it's life dramaticly ) because of the differences in the thickness of the liquids

i have no idea how long this would take to eventually damage the engine and from what iv'e read / heard with an older engine it might not but with the more modern HDI engines your taking quite an expensive chance

**shaggy64** · 15th September 2005

I remember reading that post by merlin ok he may be a senior devlopment chemist but to make evaluations on mechanical engineering i think he might be slightly out of his depth.

As for the older cars and newer cars i would be a bit sceptical on this statement my mats car with the snapped belt is a 2002 peugeot hdi my car is a golf with 180000 miles on the clock which is still running as good as the day i got it with 27000 miles on.
One thing i have heard is that german and french cars tolerate vegi oil better others but i dont belive this either as most diesel cars engines come frome these countrys any way.
Another myth is that it only works on cars with bosch pumps ????????

**easy** · 18th September 2005

I am about to go on a course about how to make Biodiesel, the background work i have done so far tells me that SVO (straight veg oil) into the tank is quite bad for the engine. What you want to be doing is processing the oil into Biodiesel. Its through a chemical process of transesterification. www.cat.org.uk