Tropical fish health

[GTI]

I've been running a 60L tropical tank for about 3 months now. Everything has been going swimmingly well until last week. Out of 20 large and small fishes, 11 have died (neon tetras, guppies and 1 molly). I've checked and re-checked the water chemistry. Nitrates, nitrites and ammonia are all low and the pH is around 7.2. I've carried out 20% and 40% water changes and it doesn't seem to be stemming the deaths.

Looking at the remaining fishes behaviour they do look very lifeless and my cory catfish slinks about on the bottom as if dead, but when I tap the tank he races to the surface and comes down again. I've noticed the fishes seem to spend longer at the surface which is what initially led me to think it could be due to nitrite/ammonia poisoning - however the levels are low and I've changed 60% of the water in the last week alone.

So I guess the only other cause is bacterial infection... but how can I tell and how can I clear it up?

TIA

[DJAd]

Have a look at the fish, the most common tropical fish disease is "white spot" as the name suggests, have a butchers for tiny white pin size markings on the fish. See any? Get some anti white spot treatment in the tank, but TBH, there prob gonna be fucked already from what you say mate.

Swimming like retards? This could be a swim bladder infection, in this case, whip out the fish and crack it over the head. You can get treatments for this but the chances of a full recovery are slim. They aint no Richard Hammonds!

Do you have any natural plants in the tank? Swimming to the top may be due to lack of air. if you have a filter or pump that blows water/air into the tank, position the head just above the surface of the water, thus making more disturbance and creating more air in the water. However make sure its not so stong that the fish are having trouble swimming.

I would do a FULL water change, and make sure you add the correct water condition treatments to the tank.

Pain up the ass aint it

[Thrush]

You could take one of the fish out, put it into its own mini tank and test it with an anti bacterial.

But the way things are going, it doesn't look like you have much time. If you don't mind paying the money call someone out to have a look for you, or if you don't care about the possibility of replacing all the fish, just dump various treatments into the water and see how that goes.

Or do what Djad said ^_^

[rob5059]

I find salt is a good old fashioned cure for most aquarium diseases, watch the dose you put in though, why not nip to somewhere like Pets at Home or a decent outlet for tropical fish explain your problem they will sell you some salt and tell you the dose, well they did when I had similar problems and whilst a lost a few fish it saved a lot.

[DJAd]

be VERY careful if adding salt to a trop setup. 3 months is not very established so it could do more harm then good

[GTI]

OK, thanks guys. I'll have a closer look for white spot tonight. But yes it is a pain in the ass because you do get attached to the little feckers.

[DJAd]

Dont tell me you've named them all?

[headsortails]

It sounds to me like you're infected, or rather your fish are, with Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifiliis) maybe.

Treatment for Ich - Since Ich is a true parasite, it needs to be treated appropriately with an anti-parasitic agent safe for aquarium fish and invertebrates. Some fish disease medications are known to cause plant death, so read all instructions thoroughly before treating your aquarium for sicknesses. In my previous experience, a product known as Rid-Ich worked very well for common aquarium diseases. Check your local pet store for the most current medication for Ich.

[daven]

Also check the temperature - if it's too high the fish can suffer more than if its too cold! Heaters can stick on which can be bad news - I try to keep a spare if only using one tank!

TBH it doesn't sound too good, have you added any fish recently that may have introduced a virus? If so you may keep losing them - keep testing the water, add a de-clorinator or let the water stand for a day before adding it!

It does happen - I have kept TF on and off over the last 25 years, they are no where near as robust as they were due to in-breeding and anti-biotics the breeders use (allegedly)

Good luck

Dave

[GTI]

Dont tell me you've named them all?

Named them?? the two Mollies are getting married on Saturday and the remaining fishies will be their wedding guests

[headsortails]

Named them?? the two Mollies are getting married on Saturday and the remaining fishies will be their wedding guests

My Mollies skipped marriage and went straight into creating thousands of little bastards.

I have kept TF on and off over the last 25 years, they are no where near as robust as they were due to in-breeding and anti-biotics the breeders use (allegedly)

I agree with that, it happens with all animals (humans inc), my brother had a tank when I was a kid - i cracked over night and the fish survived in about 1 inch of water for several hours then a few days in a bucket.

My current fish would faint if I gave them 1 flake too many, god knows what they'd do if I put too much plant fert' in.

[mcdee]

im against water changes all the time,i think it can do more harm than good.
bump up your airation for a couple of days see how they get on.

[DJAd]

Yeah your right mcdee, it can take a good few months for the filters and (if you have fitted) the under gravel filter to build up bacteria.

Make sure if you do a water change that you clean the foams from the filter etc.. in the tank water, don't clean them under the tap as all the lovely bacteria that help beak down all the shite will die.

You can get a product called 'cycle' which helps to accelerate the growth of bacteria on the filters etc... use this or a similar product if you do decide a full change is needed.

[GTI]

Guys I think it is Ich. Firstly came home to find the cory catfish dead... but looking at the remainder I can see a variety of ailments including white spots near the base of the fins as well as fraying of the fins on several of the fish.

I would love to be able to cure this infection, but the lifecycle of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis sounds far too complex and the treatment only works when the protozoa are in the free swimming stage. I'm now wondering whether I shouldn't do the humane thing i.e. get some chloroform from work and put the remaining ones out of the misery

[headsortails]

I'd give the treatment a go - I mean, what harm can it do?

[daven]

I'd give the treatment a go - I mean, what harm can it do?

Agreed - a good dose of Methylene Blue and quick! Leave the water alone for a while and after a week or so do a partial change!

Look at ways it could have been introduced - new plants or fish, if so change fish shops! As I mentioned earlier check the heater - a sudden drop in temprature can also help to kick it off!

I have had fish with bad white spot that have recovered, Black Mollys are prone to this so I get the marble coloured ones.

Good luck

Dave

[GTI]

OK lads, I've just been to the pet store and picked up some Aquarium salt, Methylene blue and Interpet Anti white spot plus.

I guess I can't mix the Methylene blue and White Spot treatment together.. so which should i try first? and can I add the aquarium salt along with either of the two treatments (apparantly salt is supposed to act as a tonic)

TIA

[DJAd]

Use the white spot treatment first geeza. If it's an Interpet one then it's prob just a case of working out the dose and plopping it in.

Then keep a close eye on the fish, if they do have 'white spots' try and remember what fish have. Then you can see if the treatment is doing its job as your see if the spots vanish.

The Methylene blue is more of a general treatment that covers a mix of diseases. If they have definality got white spots use the white spot first. If not use the blue first.

I now remember why I got rid of my old tank

[mcdee]

found this may be of some help
http://www.fishforever.co.uk/fish-disease.html
http://www.tropicaltankforum.com/for...76165af8ea5c37

[apllrd]

White spot is caused by protozan parasites which are almost ever present even in healthy aquaria, they only usually attach so fish that are stressed because the natural slime which covers there bodies prevents infestation but when they 'attach' to a fish they cannot be killed with the usual remedies, normally they will fall off after a a few days and die (after reproducing) leaving a new (and more abundant) genaration in free swimming form, this is the only time any treatment will work.
Either the methylene blue or white spot treatment should work , they are both copper based which is the element that kills the parasites, be very careful not to overdose though as copper is also toxic to fish and could do more harm than good to already 'weakened' fish.
once the white spot has gone, try to find the source of the stress, oyu said the water parameters where ok, if you are using tap water there could be a problem with high phosphate levels, also the PH is pretty important dependant on the species, (i.e. african lake fish as opposed to amazonian river fish). Also, do any of the fish seem to be 'bullies', this can be a major source of stress in an aquarium.
A strong reccomendation due to a recent regrettable experience is to buy an additional thermostat and plug the heater into that as a backup, i have two marine aquariums and one was almost totally wiped out last week due to a faulty heater not switching off, lost all of my inverts and corals and a few fish, luckily i have the other tank and managed to rescue the surviving members who are all ok now.
good luck with your tank.