Capitalism - A failed experiment?

[CzarJunkie]

Given the events of the last week and the intervention by government to rescue private enterprise, do you think capitalism is the way forward?

Discus..............

[Over Carl]

I was just thinking on the tube this morning about a post you made about how we might not be using the best economic model. I then tried to think of a better way to do things, lasted about a minute till I went back to sleep again.

Have to say I reckon there must be a better way but I haven't got a clue about what it would be.

[Kushty]

All political and financial systems (which are obviously often inherently linked) have flaws where they deviate in practice from their theory. We have to judge them by their flaws, I would have been a great fan of Communism in 1900 before I'd seen it fail miserably in practice. Though capitalism has its flaws, which we are seeing now, I still think it offers the best gains for society. It must be regulated as people exploit it or gain more than their fair share from it. No system will ever be perfect but at the minute I still think capitalism is the best option for us.

[CzarJunkie]

All political and financial systems (which are obviously often inherently linked) have flaws where they deviate in practice from their theory. We have to judge them by their flaws, I would have been a great fan of Communism in 1900 before I'd seen it fail miserably in practice. Though capitalism has its flaws, which we are seeing now, I still think it offers the best gains for society. It must be regulated as people exploit it or gain more than their fair share from it. No system will ever be perfect but at the minute I still think capitalism is the best option for us.

Pure capitalism, by design, can not be regulated.

[gunner]

Capitalism is all about peaks and troughs, we are in a trough - but it will peak again.

[CzarJunkie]

Capitalism is all about peaks and troughs, we are in a trough - but it will peak again.

If troughs need government intervention. is that capitalism?

[sinister_monk]

It's not a political or a socialogical model that is at fault, for model are an ideal.

Greed, it's the pure and simple inherent greed of humanity that creates dischord, and ultimately why communism, capitalism etc will fail.

[coin-op]

It must be regulated as people exploit it or gain more than their fair share from it. .

As CJ said, capitalism, almost by definition cannot be regulated, so the only "fair share" is what you manage to get out of it. As soon as there is a fair share element you are heading towards a socialist/communist model.

[Kushty]

I agree that pure capitalism doesn't have regulations and think it's not ideal. I'm on about a similar model where you have regulations in place in a capitalist economy. Obviously, these regulations do exist and have existed in the major capitalist economies of the world. Even America has laws to stop monopolistic abuse by telecomms companies, software developers etc. They aren't perfect but they're better than nothing and show that if pure capitalism doesn't include regulations, then no-one has got a pure capitalist economy anyway. So I reckon the capitalist system that we have, which does have regulations is still the best (but not perfect) way forward.

[CzarJunkie]

I agree that pure capitalism doesn't have regulations and think it's not ideal. I'm on about a similar model where you have regulations in place in a capitalist economy. Obviously, these regulations do exist and have existed in the major capitalist economies of the world. Even America has laws to stop monopolistic abuse by telecomms companies, software developers etc. They aren't perfect but they're better than nothing and show that if pure capitalism doesn't include regulations, then no-one has got a pure capitalist economy anyway. So I reckon the capitalist system that we have, which does have regulations is still the best (but not perfect) way forward.

I agree in part, but does the 1ncestuous relationship this throws up, between government and commerce best serve the people? Capitalism has given birth to the military-industrial complex and now we find ourselves in a situation where a much more explicit relationship is exposed.

[gunner]

If troughs need government intervention. is that capitalism?

I guess so - it is all part of the process.

[CzarJunkie]

I guess so - it is all part of the process.

Then it's not capitalism...............it's broken.

[4me2]

If troughs need government intervention. is that capitalism?

Capitalism as we know it never has been true capitalism.

The minute you get America imposing unfair import taxes on things that they can't compete with then everything goes out of the window.

The same with EU subs that the French Farming industry is propped by.In normal equal conditions they would have long since gone under like our coal mining industry.

Can't answer the original question as I'm not aware of any experiment being started.

[gunner]

Then it's not capitalism...............it's broken.

Depends on your defination I suppose.

[coin-op]

Capitalism as we know it never has been true capitalism.



The same with EU subs that the French Farming industry is propped by.In normal equal conditions they would have long since gone under like our coal mining industry.

.

Not having a go at the French per se, but this thing about subsidising farming (particularly wine) and not subsidising industry (Brewing beer) boils my piss. Wine making is no longer agriculture, but an industry, and hence does not deserve a subsidy, or conversely beer making is just as deserving.

The EU is a tad biased away from british industry. Apologiesfor the tangent from the original discussion.

[super mike]

I guess so - it is all part of the process.

In pure capitalism it shouldn't be part of the process, when troughs appear that is when weaker companies lose, and stronger companies succeed. To have intervention keeping the weaker companies afloat stops it being capitalism.

In real life this would not, and does not work, and would create massive monopolies, hence the need for interventions, I think.

Interesting thread.

[Fresh]

Failure of Capitalism, no. Failure of risk management at the majority of the financial institutions, yes.

[grint]

As in 1917....show me an unproven alternative and I'll gladly give it a whirl.

[CzarJunkie]

Capitalism as we know it never has been true capitalism.

I agree, and that is the main reason for this thread. The sub-prime mortgage market, that brought about this chaos, was largely unregulated. Therefore, is there a case to suggest capitalism does not work? It would appear as soon as you remove regulation of any kind the whole thing fails and fails quite spectacularly.

[CzarJunkie]

Depends on your defination I suppose.

Capitalism is a concept, an ideal. It is defined as an economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

So no, it doesn't depend on your definition as if your definition differs from that above then it isn't capitalism.