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  1. #1
    DF VIP Member GTI's Avatar
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    Default A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    To use the 'ol hackneyed expression, 'It never did me any harm'

    A smacked child ‘is a successful child’
    From The Sunday Times
    January 3, 2010

    A study suggests chastised youngsters do better in life


    Research into the effects of smacking was previously hampered by the inability to find enough children who had never been smacked

    Georgia Warren

    Young children smacked by their parents may grow up to be happier and more successful than those who have never been hit, a study has found.
    According to the research, children smacked up to the age of six were likely as teenagers to perform better at school and were more likely to carry out volunteer work and to want to go to university than their peers who had never been physically disciplined.
    Only those children who continued to be smacked into adolescence showed clear behavioural problems.
    Children’s groups and MPs have tried several times to have physical chastisement by parents outlawed. They claim it is a form of abuse that causes long-term harm to children and say banning it would send a clear signal that violence is unacceptable.
    However, Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, said her study showed there was insufficient evidence to deny parents the freedom to choose how they discipline their children.
    “The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data,” said Gunnoe. “I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool. You just don’t use it for all your jobs.”
    Research into the effects of smacking was previously hampered by the inability to find enough children who had never been smacked, given its past cultural acceptability. But Gunnoe’s work drew on a study of 2,600 people, of whom about a quarter had never been physically chastised.
    Gunnoe’s findings were welcomed by Aric Sigman, a psychologist and author of The Spoilt Generation: Why Restoring Authority will Make our Children and Society Happier.
    “The idea that smacking and violence are on a continuum is a bizarre and fetishised view of what punishment or smacking is for most parents,” he said.
    “If it’s done judiciously by a parent who is normally affectionate and sensitive to their child, our society should not be up in arms about that. Parents should be trusted to distinguish this from a punch in the face.”
    Penelope Leach, the British parenting guru whose book Your Baby and Child has sold more than 2m copies, said physical discipline should always be avoided.
    “No good can come from hitting a child,” said Leach. “I do not buy this idea that children will learn positive behaviour from being smacked. The law says adults hitting adults is wrong and children should be protected in the same way. Children are people, too.”
    British parents have traditionally followed the maxim “spare the rod and spoil the child”. More recently, however, the opposition of children’s charities to smacking has gained support, with 71% of Britons in one poll saying they would support a ban. The law allows smacking as long as it does not leave a mark.
    The government says it does not want to criminalise parents for chastising their children with the best of intentions.
    Gunnoe’s research included detailed questioning of 179 teenagers who were asked how old they were when they were last smacked and how often they were smacked as a child.
    Their answers were compared with information they gave about their behaviour that could have been affected by smacking. This covered bad outcomes, such as antisocial behaviour, early sexual activity, violence and depression, and good outcomes, including academic success and optimism about the future.
    Teenagers who had been smacked only when they were aged two to six performed slightly better on almost every positive measure and no worse on the negative measures than those who had never been smacked.
    The results were less clear for a separate group of teenagers who had been smacked until they were slightly older — aged seven to 11. They fared slightly worse on negative behaviour scores — they reported being involved in more fights, for example — but were also likely to be more academically successful than those who had not been smacked.
    Teenagers who were still being smacked, however, scored significantly worse than every group on all the measures. Gunnoe found little difference in the results between boys and girls and between racial groups.
    She is now trying to explain the reasons for the differences. She suggests parents who rule out smacking as a matter of principle may be less likely to help their children develop the self-discipline and social skills needed to succeed in life.

    Source

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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    about bloody time never did us any harm, and before jump on me saying hitting is not the answer I mean just as the post says chastising a smack on the bum or back of the hand I don't mean extreme violence or beating them up...this is why the young ones (not all) In my opinion have no respect there is no discipline anymore, if it warrants it I would chastise my child...

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    DF VIP Member super mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Mike/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]As there is a time and a place for everything, this seems perfect.


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    DF VIP Member koola2's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Think I'll give my kids a clip round the ear tonight just to be safe.

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    VIP Member CzarJunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    My mother used to knock me up and down the fucking stairs when her slipper came off. I'm both successful and good looking.

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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    She is now trying to explain the reasons for the differences.

    Source
    This is very poor science, correlation ≠ causation.

    Quote Originally Posted by chesser View Post
    about bloody time never did us any harm
    How do you know? What evidence would you need to show it had done you harm? The way in which it affected you would most likely not be something you'd be able to identify yourself. IMO, if you were hit as a child and now as an adult also think it's acceptable to hit someone as defenceless as a child then I think that shows at least one way it which it has harmed you.

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    DF VIP Member burner1's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Smacking is always going to cause polarised views, but what gets me is parents who won't even acknowledge their child is actually being 'naughty'.

    I was in Tesco's in the summer with my little nephew and this kid of about 5 or 6 was throwing a right tantrum and throwing tins off the shelves onto the floor. I presume it was his mother he was with and she just said 'stop it will you' and my nephew said 'he's beingy naughty uncle'.. the woman gave my nephew a dirty look and said 'he's not naughty, he's just expressing himself'.
    "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." - Adolf Hitler, 1933

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    DF VIP Member sirdave's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    I haven't as yet smacked my kids (7 and 4) and doubt I will and my Dad or Mum never laid a finger on me when I was little but I was still told off and had respect same as I tell my kids off but they don't need smacking, in fact the only time I was ever hit was when I was about 16 and my mum came at me with the Hoover pipe (after a drunken puke on the kitchen floor night) it didn't hurt at all and in fact was very funny as it was only the Hoover pipe and and she was thrashing it wildly at me it was making some really cool light sabre noises!

    Anyway each to there own a smack is not the end of the world but there is a clear line between hitting a child and smacking one, hitting I don't agree with.
    When I was born, I was given a choice - A big dick or a good memory. I don't remember, what I chose

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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mule View Post

    How do you know? What evidence would you need to show it had done you harm? The way in which it affected you would most likely not be something you'd be able to identify yourself. IMO, if you were hit as a child and now as an adult also think it's acceptable to hit someone as defenceless as a child then I think that shows at least one way it which it has harmed you.
    erm because I'm me...I've never been arrested in trouble with the law, I'm helpful to others, respect other people and their property and opinions, I have a decent job, family and life in general, I didn't get battered as a kid only short sharp shrift if I deserved it, people will never agree on this subject always opens a can of worms.

    My opinion only which I believe I'm entitled to is that because there is no chastising for wrong doings is why society in parts is like it is, christ we can't even talk out of turn anymore without offending an Outer Mongolians Yak! and how it might be oppressed.

    Like I said earlier I'm not saying you should beat or run your household with a reign of terror just whatever works, I am a believer that a short sharp shrift achieves that....
    Last edited by chesser; 5th January 2010 at 03:22 PM.

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    DF VIP Member sirdave's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Quote Originally Posted by chesser View Post
    My opinion only which I believe I'm entitled to is that because there is no chastising for wrong doings
    Your right there! in my lads school a kid was always chatting and going on to his mate, so they moved his mate! so as not to single out the kid that wouldn't stop talking! its a barmy world now!
    When I was born, I was given a choice - A big dick or a good memory. I don't remember, what I chose

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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Quote Originally Posted by chesser View Post
    erm because I'm me...
    That's exactly what I'm saying, the worst person to assess what mental damage smacking could have done you would be yourself. Any decisions you make as an adult now you'll see as entirely of your own free will and won't take account of how past experiences could have shaped your mentality. Crazy people often have no idea that their behaviour is deemed odd by others as they can't see it in themselves.

    You can paint as rosy a picture of your life as you like but we all have our problems and they're usually very hard to find the cause of without outside assistance.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Quote Originally Posted by GTI View Post
    Gunnoe’s research included detailed questioning of 179 teenagers
    Hmmm.....not exactly a large group on which to base such a generalisation.

    The threat of the belt was worse than the belt itself with my my old man when we were boys.

    I would only smack my child if he is putting his life or others in danger. Apart from that extreme situation, I would not feel the need to use physical force when disciplining him.

    The problem with smacking is that it doesn't just apply to level headed sensible folk; it is allowing low-life scumbags, with limited intelligence to unleash adult strength force onto a child.

    A few weeks ago, saw a small boy about the size of my son walking in front of me into a convenience shop right by where I work. He was with his mum & dad who were two big, fat, scruffy slobs. It wasn't until we were in the shop that I realised that the boy was older than my 19 month old son; he was in fact a dwarf child that I guess was around 6 or 7 years old. He was asking his mum & dad for sweets, as a child of that age would in a sweet shop. The fat slob of a dad turned round to the boy and barked "If you fuckign touch anything, I whack you....you little cunt!".

    Now as I have learnt over the 25 years since our business moved to this area, that's fairly typical way to talk to kids round here. I felt so sorry for the little boy that I was sorely tempted to go up to this fat sack of shit/waste of a skin/sorry excuse for a father and say "you whack him and I'll whack you harder than you ever thought possible". However I realise that this shit must go on every day for the poor mite. What chance he stands of growing up to be a decent human being is anyone's guess. The world is a shithole :o(
    Last edited by Roach-Rampino; 5th January 2010 at 04:16 PM.

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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mule View Post
    That's exactly what I'm saying, the worst person to assess what mental damage smacking could have done you would be yourself. Any decisions you make as an adult now you'll see as entirely of your own free will and won't take account of how past experiences could have shaped your mentality. Crazy people often have no idea that their behaviour is deemed odd by others as they can't see it in themselves.

    You can paint as rosy a picture of your life as you like but we all have our problems and they're usually very hard to find the cause of without outside assistance.
    I'm sorry but you don't know me from Adam so how can you analyse who I am and any deep seated issues I may have because I got a crack around the lug hole when I was younger , you also alude to the fact that I need a shrink "outside assistance" mmmm.....don't think it's me that needs one

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    DF VIP Member BertRoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    I beat both of mine regularly with a ruler. The elder one knows her place now though my one year old still doesn't really get it but he will come to when he understands language a little better. I am confident that it will make them both rounded individuals in years to come.


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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Quote Originally Posted by chesser View Post
    I'm sorry but you don't know me from Adam so how can you analyse who I am and any deep seated issues I may have because I got a crack around the lug hole when I was younger , you also alude to the fact that I need a shrink "outside assistance" mmmm.....don't think it's me that needs one
    No, what I am saying applies to everyone and is in no way specific to you. Perhaps this could be evidence that smacking causes egocentricity though?

    Any "I got smacked and turned out okay" comments are merely anecdotal and in no way evidence to the fact that smacking children can have affects on a persons mentality. It needs to be scientifically studied (properly, not like the rubbish in this article) to find out if it does/doesn't do any harm.

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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Quote Originally Posted by Mule View Post
    No, what I am saying applies to everyone and is in no way specific to you. Perhaps this could be evidence that smacking causes egocentricity though?
    LOL like it....yes you are right more research is required, I think we'll beg to differ on the minor details....

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    DF VIP Member Ganty's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    I was never "smacked" as a child, as per Roach's post, the fear of being smacked was more than enough - my old man's a big fucker!

    I see no harm in physical discipline, but distinctions must be made as to what constitutes a suitable level. I have smacked my daughter, on the hand, only once, for pushing her younger brother of the sofa, quite maliciously and with intent, because he had her juice. And by smack, I don't mean a full on whack, more raising my hand and helping gravity just a little with the downward pressure - just enough to make a noise, but not to hurt.

    Because I had never used physical means before, it had the desired effect of her knowing instantly what she did was wrong.

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    DF VIP Member SiE's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    The real issue in modern life is respect. A large number of kids are brought up with no fear of authority (this doesnt necessarily come from being smacked.). If we can embed respect into our childrens lives, the world will be a better place.

    The problem with this country is that we go from one extreme to another and find it difficult to get a balance. Look at the state of our schools and police force. Individuals are running wild as the ADULTS have no power to teach them right from wrong. This not only includes smacking but also what we can say and do to a child.

    How can a child learn effectively when its only being shown whats right and never whats wrong and the consequences of behaving in an appropiate way.

    I dont think all children are badly behaved but in a modern world where many of our children are effectively learning their life lessons from others due to work commitments they need to be shown how to behave and appropiate power needs to return to parents and people working with children.

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    DF VIP Member BertRoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    Been thinking about this and I was regularly twatted by my parents as a kid, even had a plate broken over the back of my head by my mother. Anyway my point is all you need to do is look through my posts to realise what a rounded individual I have become.


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    DF VIP Member BBK's Avatar
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    Default Re: A smacked child ‘is a successful child’

    I have smacked both my kids. People are always commenting on how well behaved they (and the 3 stepkids, who have all been smacked by their mother) are in public. None of them have been smacked often, and I haven't smacked my girls since they were quite a bit younger. As was said above, they were smacked primarily because they were doing something that could seriously endanger their lives. I will use the old chestnut that it never did me any harm, I know I have my flaws, but I look at society in general and reckon I turned out ok. I think I've pretty much realised my full potential, but I know I'm not the brightest spark. My children are well behaved and - generally - show good manners and respect. Generally. And I think I'm doing a good job raising them compared to a hell of a lot of the other kids I see at their schools.

    Whether its better or not - who knows, but I think it should be left to the parent to decide how to discipline their children. Problem is many parents of course are not really able to make the decision (see Roach's post above), but Im pretty sure thats how its been for a good 10,000 years or so.

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