Privatised prisons do we really want them

[Bald Bouncer]

Just though I would post this report as we see the Government moving towards privatising our prisons - Don't think it could happen here it already is with so many other things so why not?

[AspectUK]

It's only a matter of time before our prisons go private .. according to the Civitas it costs £41,000 per year to keep each person in prison and the prison population is rising every year .. and it's never been proven to me that setting all these alternatives to prison up have saved us a penny.

Someone somewhere must already get kickbacks, look at Group 4 .. they now have their fingers in every pie they can and I see the meat waggons transporting prisoners all the time with Group 4 or G4S all over them.

According to the BBC there are already 13 prisons in the UK that are privately run, 12 of those were built by the private sector however, the latest (Birmingham) used to be government run but has now been handed over to ... G4S.

[Bald Bouncer]

Corruption is and has never been something factored in when they privatise something yet it is endemic of every privatised industry, the greed of the few often results in misery for the masses and these people/companies have no souls, morals or guilt.

[pheonixsingh]

its a messed up society when a company can profit from a persons imprisonment.

[AspectUK]

The only person who should profit from a persons imprisonment should be the victim ..

or .. in the case of kiddy fiddlers a big hairy monster of a prisoner called Derek

[CzarJunkie]

Expect the prison population to explode if we develop a prison/industrial complex like they have in the States. Also expect Prisons to start undercutting China and India in the costs of manufacturing certain types of goods, like US Prisons undercut Mexico.

It's clearly a bad idea and if it goes that way it wouldn't be long before our prisons were full of those most marginalised in society. So, we can expect more Black and Asian youths to be locked up for the pettiest of crimes. On release they'd clearly have limited opportunites and a bleak future, so that creates the ideal repeat customer for the prisons. Let's be honest, why would they want Prison to rehabilitate? That's not in the fucking business plan. We may even get our very own 3 strikes and you're out law just to keep a steady flow of longer term customers coming through the Prison doors.

[Possy_99]

the corruption would be my only issue, going private may not be such a bad idea though as it will all be about keeping costs low so prisons may start becoming more like a detention center than a holiday camp.

[AspectUK]

Hmmm .. maybe India will start outsourcing to us!!

I can't see it being a bad thing if the prisons were regulated to producing only things that were for limited sale .. eg. manufacturing fluffy toys for sale only in charity shops or manufacturing posters for hospitals or beer mats with printed messages about health warnings like drink driving etc.

Not suggesting for a minute that they should start manufacturing the Summer Collection for M & S or anything.

[Mule]

This outsourcing drives me nuts. I can understand outsourcing aspects of organisations that can be done cheaper due to economies of scale by companies that specialise in those particular jobs.

E.G. It makes sense for councils to outsource waste collections to companies that specialise in it rather than each council organising it's own waste disposal individually which would be less efficient.

However, when it comes to things like prisons and the NHS there's already large government organisations involved in this. Outsourcing to private companies can only make it less efficient.

IMHO, if anything, they should be doing the opposite. Make use of the large organisations by taking on jobs surplus to their regular requirements to turn a profit which they can reinvest to improve services.

The NHS shouldn't be paying private companies for food, they need huge amounts of meals so they should mass produce their own and while they're at it sell it to other organisations too.

If it's cheaper to run prisons privately then they're doing it wrong, fix it, then offer to run prisons for other countries.

[Bald Bouncer]

Hmmm .. maybe India will start outsourcing to us!!

I can't see it being a bad thing if the prisons were regulated to producing only things that were for limited sale .. eg. manufacturing fluffy toys for sale only in charity shops or manufacturing posters for hospitals or beer mats with printed messages about health warnings like drink driving etc.

Not suggesting for a minute that they should start manufacturing the Summer Collection for M & S or anything.

The problem is the corruption and hidden agenda involved in all things like this, many things are pushed through with emotive subject matter or a couple of extreme examples are used to swing public opinion via the media when there is a long term plan that would never get the public backing if it was made clear.

It is the same as laws that are bought in for one reason but all along have the intention of being used for another and once in it is very easy for them to give "legal" backhanders to the people's elected MP's to become "consultants" to promote change to these laws through amendments or extension of use to cover the initial intended reason.

In an ideal world the cancer of corruption that exists in our legal system and government would not exist and everything done would be in the interests of the country and people, in reality in my opinion once you open the door to private companies running the prisons and as suggested allow them to manufacture controlled goods it would only be a matter of time before they amended these conditions and they started undercutting legitimate business constrained by costs such as minimum wage again driving down wages and working conditions for the poor.

My opinion is based on what has happened in the states so has grounding rather than the opinion of thinking what might happen, the example is already there and shows by the statistics of crime rate, re-offend rate and percentage of the population in prison it does not work.

The United States' incarceration rate is, according to official reports, the highest in the world, at 737 persons imprisoned per 100,000 (as of 2005). A report released in 2008 indicates that in the United States more than 1 in 100 adults is now confined in an American jail or prison. The United States has 4% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.

In 2006 the incarceration rate in England and Wales is 139 persons imprisoned per 100,000 residents, while in Norway it is 59 inmates per 100,000, whilst the Australian imprisonment rate is 163 prisoners per 100,000 residents, and the rate of imprisonment in New Zealand last year was 179 per 100,000.

Incarceration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/Filerisoner_population_rate_UN_HDR_2007_2008.PNG" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Prisoner_population_rate_UN_HDR_2007_2008.PNG/300px-Prisoner_population_rate_UN_HDR_2007_2008.PNG"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/67/Prisoner_population_rate_UN_HDR_2007_2008.PNG/300px-Prisoner_population_rate_UN_HDR_2007_2008.PNG

So if we are using the United States as a business model for our prisons then expect our percentage of incarcerated population to go through the roof and eventually when it is too late to have a story like the one in the original video I posted here and of course accept this will only ever save money in the short term the long term is a massive increase burden on the tax payer for the future.

[Geko]

I don't know enough to make a judgement. But I would like to see our prisoners give something back to the society the majority leech from. So I would be for manufacturing in prisons like they do in the states. They could earn their keep and prisons would be cost neutral. In an ideal world, obviously.

[j80tdb]

excellent discussion. i have my own strong views on this, however, its all been said

[Bald Bouncer]

I don't know enough to make a judgement. But I would like to see our prisoners give something back to the society the majority leech from. So I would be for manufacturing in prisons like they do in the states. They could earn their keep and prisons would be cost neutral. In an ideal world, obviously.

In a ideal world I totally agree it's just the criminals that aren't and very rarely ever end up behind bars lead me to believe this would become abused and used with the eventual result of driving down living standards and wages of the poor in the manufacturing industry in this country.

[j80tdb]

[rivate companies did not overnight become and undertake moral social responsibility for the rehabilitation of prisoners. they dont care unless there is money to be made. this is wrong.

[lad25]

Privatise , bring back the death penalty and use the money saved to invest in care for the elderly , job done !

[Detector]

for me its an easy thing to decide, prison should mean punishment and theres no better punishments than death or boredom.

the death sentence will never be brought back which is a shame, ian huntley ought to have been hung along with many others.

but the thing that pisses me off is that the cons these days have tv's, games consoles, kitchen appliances, and also a well stocked food cupboard (dont take my word for it - watch strangeways on itv!!)

years ago in my very early teens i was a right cunt, i got done for assault, theft - of my mums motorbike so it was twoc plus loads of others. i went to court at just the wrong time and got the "short sharp shock" and went to kirklevington in yarm, cleveland.

that soon sorted me out and made me not want to go back because of the boredom, we were locked up with no tv, no food or appliances or fuck all. and i hated it. prison is fuck all if you got a tv and other homely things such as a well stocked cupboard, in fact its free b&b.

years ago prisoners in the main adult jails also had fuck all apart from the odd book or newspaper and they were locked up 23 hours a day. this was a good thing because they are left with nothing to do but think about why they are in there and was it all worth it etc.

now, i would say some prisons are more like a holiday camp.

i know one prison in doncaster was so lax it was unbelieveable. a mate of mine's father was locked up for gbh (and a shit load of other stuff). my mate told me that he was getting the warden viagra and being allowed stuff like steaks and other luxury items. bearing in mind this was about 10 years ago but i think it was about that time - 10-15 yrs ago we started to be more and more lax.

take away all the perks and lock them up 23hrs a time, give them the boredom and banality of proper prison life and see the reoffending rates cut down.

lastly, i know lots of local theives and crack heads, most of them treat prison like its fuck all. they are no longer scared or bothered by it and one lad calls it a free holiday.