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  1. #1
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Attention Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Formula 1: Ferrari consider Sebastian Vettel protest

    By Andrew Benson Chief F1 writer



    Ferrari want to establish whether there is enough evidence to lodge a protest that, if successful, could overturn the result of the world championship.
    Ferrari are "evaluating footage" that appears to show Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel making an illegal overtaking move in Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.
    Fernando Alonso lost the title by three points to Vettel after finishing second for Ferrari and the German sixth.
    Governing body the FIA refused to confirm whether it was investigating.
    Red Bull could not be reached.
    The footage, from Vettel's on-board camera, appears to show the German passing Toro Rosso's Jean-Eric Vergne in a yellow 'caution' zone.
    If that is the case, and any protest was upheld, it could mean Vettel would have 20 seconds added to his total race time. That would demote him to eighth place and make Alonso world champion by one point.


    Final F1 standings

    1. Sebastian Vettel - Red Bull 281
    2. Fernando Alonso - Ferrari 278
    3. Kimi Raikkonen - Lotus 207
    4. Lewis Hamilton - McLaren 190
    5. Jenson Button - McLaren 188


    Alonso has posted a cryptic message on the social networking site Twitter that appears to be a reference to the situation.
    He wrote in Spanish: "I don't believe in miracles. I make my miracles out of the correct rules."
    Alonso is believed to be pushing Ferrari to make an official protest to the FIA.
    However, the governing body does not need a protest from Ferrari to investigate further. In fact, its own rules appear to oblige it to do so.
    Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."
    It adds: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship."
    That appears to give the FIA until Friday to resolve the situation one way or another.
    A yellow zone - indicated by yellow flags and flashing trackside yellow lights - indicates that drivers must proceed with caution and overtaking is strictly forbidden.
    If a driver is caught overtaking in a yellow-flag zone, the punishment is either to drive through the pits at restricted speed if the race is still under way, or 20 seconds added to a driver's race time if the incident takes place close to the end of the race or is investigated after the race.
    The footage in question was not shown on the main global 'world feed' during the race as it was showing repeats of the start at the time.
    However, it has since emerged on the video sharing site YouTube after audience members recorded it from extra channels of in-car footage, which was broadcasting from Vettel's on-board camera at the time.
    The video - broadcast on the BBC's in-car channel - is embedded at the top of this article.
    Drivers are also alerted to caution zones by an indicator on their car's dashboard display as they pass through the relevant area.
    If there is any discrepancy between a driver's dashboard and the trackside indicators, the flags and lights take precedence - the display is meant solely as a further driver aid.
    The footage clearly shows Vettel passing a flashing yellow light in Turn Two and another at the exit of Turn Three, after which he overtakes Vergne down the straight, completing the move before reaching a flashing green light, indicating the end of the yellow zone, before Turn Four.
    The yellow flag indicator in his cockpit is on the whole time.
    The rules dictate that the 'yellow' zone ends only when the driver passes the first 'green' indicator.


    Play media

    Vettel's road to glory in 2012



    However, on the footage from Vettel's car it is not possible to see clearly the marshals' post that is situated on the inside of the track at the exit of the pit lane - after the yellow light at Turn Three.
    It is possible that the marshal there was waving a green flag. If he was, the pass on Vergne would be legal and the result would stand.
    A green flag is waved at that post as Vettel passes the Marussia of Charles Pic on lap three, but it is not clear whether it was still being waved on lap four.
    There are some videos on the Internet which seem to show a marshal waving a green flag at that post but it is not clear on the official TV footage.
    The likelihood of any protest being lodged or of any action being taken depends on whether Ferrari or the FIA can establish whether there was a green flag waving at that marshals' post at that time.
    If there was, the case will be closed and no further action will be taken. If there was not a green flag, it is highly likely that the case will go before the FIA Court of Appeal.
    Under a strict interpretation of the rules, it would seem to have little option in that scenario to impose a penalty. But it may well feel it has to evaluate how much of an effect on the result of the race a drive-through penalty for Vettel at the time would have had.
    BBC Sport asked the FIA:
    - If the stewards of the Brazilian Grand Prix had investigated the incident in question during the race.
    - If there was a green flag waved on lap four at the marshals' post on the inside of the track after the exit of Turn Three.
    - If the FIA was now investigating the incident.
    The FIA declined to comment.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638
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    2 Thanks given to 4me2

    casio (29th November 2012),  liveseytowers (29th November 2012)  


  2. #2
    DF VIP Member casio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    I wonder how Ferrari International Assistance will hand the championship win to the head of the FIA's old team, surely if they screw Vettel would'nt they be forced to enforce the rules from the race in 2007 when Kimi won the championship after they didnt punish the teams running their fuel too cold, if they were to enforce the rules with a fair hand Lewis will become the 2 time champion he should be had it not been for the FIA and Race Stewards punishing Lewis and robbing him of a win at spa. At the time the FIA said they didnt want to change the result of the race and the championship so didn't do anything over the BMW Sauber and Williams team running their fuel too cold instead they claimed there was no conclusive proof

    Thanks to casio

    Goldberg (29th November 2012)  


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    Default Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    It was pretty clear to everyone during the race that yellows were showing when Vettel made the move, it should have been sorted during the race

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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    It should have been brought up by race control during the race even if they were to say it is to be investigated after the race is over.


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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=Ku979qCzAWA#

    It wasn't the Kobayashi incident, it was against Vergne.

    The video above is prior to the incident that they are talking about, and if you look to the left you can see a Marshall waving a Green Flag. This takes precedent over any method (lights, etc).

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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    It would be shit to strip him of the title now, they did him over earlier in the season when they gave him a penalty for being outside of the track (all wheels over the white line) yet in the next race everyone was doing it on a particular corner but it was deemed OK to do it then???

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    DF VIP Member lloydi's Avatar
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    Default Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    If it is the vernge incident then what about the kobayashi one? That was clearer. It would be wrong to strip him now and let's face it even with a drive through he would have caught the pack with all the safety car interference

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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Hi,

    I think the Kobayashi one was looked at and they confirmed the flags to be red and yellow waved (warning of slippery surface).

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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    i think its clear that the rules were broken, the kobiyashi one was on tv, i think they are saying the vergne one was never aired live on tv it was later on that people got clips from youtube as some people had grabbed the footage from the interactive section so no one would have realised about that until after the race unless they were watching that. i am sure that the stewards had reviewed this and classed this as a safe overtake...........bit of a strange one as its not in the rules, and to be honest i think if they would have given vettel a drive through he still would have got the position he needed to get the title, to do it now is retarded as the titles have been awarded and it will just make next seasons championship start off on the wrong foot as everyone will talk about this controversy rather than the start of a new battle. also this championship will just not get the recognition it deserves, i mean i remember the first 5 or 6 races had jsut as many different winners and some people hated it and some people loved it, then alonso started getting ahead and a handful of driver were still in the hunt up until the half way point, and then the real championship started with one contender falling away up until the last 3 or 4 races. thats what i would like to remember this title as not as a controversial stripping of the title, i am sure ferrari will run red bull closer next year and if they can actually get the car to perform well then there will be no issue as the drivers are performing very well. roll on march 2013

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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Quote Originally Posted by akimba View Post
    It would be shit to strip him of the title now, they did him over earlier in the season when they gave him a penalty for being outside of the track (all wheels over the white line) yet in the next race everyone was doing it on a particular corner but it was deemed OK to do it then???
    It's not because his wheels were over the line but that he overtook with his wheels over the line.
    If at first you don't succeed.....redefine success. . . .


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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Ferrari will likely get their own way and so will Alonso. This is a shame because I thought Ferrari were at last playing the game properly but it seems not. As for Alonso he is undoubtedly talented but (and again I thought he was reformed) he is a spoiled, sulky little shit,
    If at first you don't succeed.....redefine success. . . .

    Thanks to blaggard

    dpSparhawk (29th November 2012)  


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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Quote Originally Posted by blaggard View Post
    Ferrari will likely get their own way and so will Alonso.
    I can't see it this time mate, but I think it all depends on that Waved Green by the Pit Exit. I am not a Vettel "fanboy", far from it. But, the Kobayashi incident is clearly a Red/Yellow Flag which equals no punishment.

    The Vergne incident is a bit more "dubious", but even though the footage shows him overtake Vergne just prior to the flashing Green Light and under waved Yellows, which initially looks like he should be penalised for(I certainly thought when I viewed it, that is it, he will get a 20 seconds post race penalty). But the footage above shows a Marshall waving a Green Flag, which if it is in the same sector then he won't be punished.

    (if the Green Flag in the video is from a different sector / different lap then that changes everything, and I think he will (and should) be penalised).

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    DF VIP Member akimba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Quote Originally Posted by blaggard View Post
    It's not because his wheels were over the line but that he overtook with his wheels over the line.
    he got done for getting an advantage while being off the track. Surely they all got an advantage for being off the track in the next race when the racing line meant going off the track as this was the fastest line, so they should of clamped down on that and said keep within the lines or get docked places after all they should have used the fastest line that is within the rules.

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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Quote Originally Posted by akimba View Post
    he got done for getting an advantage while being off the track. Surely they all got an advantage for being off the track in the next race when the racing line meant going off the track as this was the fastest line, so they should of clamped down on that and said keep within the lines or get docked places after all they should have used the fastest line that is within the rules.
    No, it has to be a direct advantage involving one car over another, I know where you're coming from but impossible to police otherwise. Concrete walls would be the other option
    If at first you don't succeed.....redefine success. . . .


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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest


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    DF VIP Member akimba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ferrari consider Vettel protest

    Good news ;-)

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