Should the UK remain part of the EU under the current rules (before re-negotiation).

[flumperino]

http://twitter.com/fergusmonaghan/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

[Mule]

I'd love that to happen to him, whatever did happen.

[GTI]

A silver lining from the Guardian's comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

[MajorFU]

pretty much what ive said all along, nobody wants to go down in history as the cunt stupid enough to trigger exit from the EU

I'm still pretty convinced it's going to happen though, they'll find a patsy

Watching Sturgeon on Andrew Marr I've definitely warmed to her

The choices for our next gov are ukip or snp as labour is finished, torrries will be finished any minute and libs are MIA.

[DavidF]

Now with the decision of the people to leave then imho I don't even see why Labour would want power until after 2020. The correct thing is for Boris and Gove to get in to number 10 + 11 downing street and gove the people what they voted for. That would be the end to eu grants (yes our cash but also "our" government now has the choice of where to spend this magic money that keeps appearing and disappearing in front of our eyes. It would not be the 1st time Labour quietly dodged power at a GE.....In 2010 the blairiets just didn't want to know when the lib dems could have formed a coalition with them...
UKIP have no mandate they only have 1 mp and his name isn't nigel. Asfar as democracy goes UKIP and farage is just a side show....maybe it's time for them to rejoin the conservative party and just get on with it.
As a footnote I don't know why but suddenly I feel like an outsider watching some weird game show unfold in front of my eyes.....It is interesting to actually be ambivalent towards consequences and am actually willing the EU on with their counter reaction. Also if there are to be cuts ect then the generation that overwhelmingly voted to leave should be the one's overwhelmingly to pay any shortfall....Fair is fair we have protected the grey vote since 2008.....Now it's time to hit them with the cuts they just voted for.....you pays your money and takes your chances.

[CzarJunkie]

A silver lining from the Guardian's comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Boris has already shown to what depths he's willing to stoop to realise his political ambitions, I'm not sure he cares what the the ramifications of Brexit are on the UK. He's proved himself to be a self serving demagogue. He simply couldn't resist the tantalising notion of actually become PM, if he just told enough lies to enough stupid people. While he may not envy the task ahead of him, his undeniable hubris will trump any negative thoughts surrounding his legacy and place in history.

[BigBird]

The best hope out of this shitty situation is perhaps a snap general election where its the Tories versus a Pro-Europe Lab-Lib coalition with a crystal clear mandate to reverse the referendum (which is actually not legally binding).

Many here, including myself, would like to see a system of proportional representation for electing our government because it would be more democratic. Its funny that when we have a one man one vote referendum that is probably the closest we can get to true democracy, the people who support proportional representation cant accept it.

World leaders including Germany, USA and Canada are already saying that they want special trade deals with post Brexit Britain. The world markets are also recovering and its only been a few days. FFS accept democracy and give it a chance instead of looking into ways to reject the majority vote and prevent Brexit from happening. If remain had won and there was talk among MP's and in the media that there was a way of ignoring the vote and force us to leave anyway, you would all be up in arms screaming that it's undemocratic and shouldn't be allowed. The word hypocrites comes to mind as I'm reading through this thread. (">

[DavidF]

I'll say my thoughts regarding the result. Remain lost it's done and dusted. I accept the majority of those who voted did so differently from me. I have been here sooo many times with regards to being on the wrong side of MY vote weather it is a referendum or a general election......im used to it...im over it..I still don't agree with it though as is my right lol...Just the same as its my right to be a "True Labour Party" supporter..not that new labour lot...not for me. So yes I accept my views are now very much against what the mainstream of popular opinion feels.
If there is something I can do that will "improve" my situation and possibly my families situation longer term then I will do that something. Many things to consider such as scottish indi ref 2 which I will watch again with interest and again will vote based on the numbers AND the outlook of the people. I was a YES last time round....But we are operating with different circumstances now so I am not an automatic YES voter until I once again look over the facts. The strange thing is a lot up in Scotland have immediately switched to YES since Friday but we haven't even seen the outcome yet ffs.
My other option is Spain as I lived there a while back and found the way of life better suited to my life attitude. Certainly better weather lol. So it is not out of the question for ME and my family to go over there for the last 10 years or so of my working career. I have a trade so in the good old tory spirit "I'll be alright". I have played the capitalist game in my younger days and to be honest it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth...but we do what we have to and we move on.
I just hope im not deported when im in England for being a "Traitor" as is being bounded around on one of my local facebook pages near where I spend a lot of time (canterbury)....yep good old Christian tolerant Canterbury's residents some of them are calling remain voters traitors and saying we should be deported to France lol.....That's what we are dealing with and before all this it was never thus !!

[Bald Bouncer]

FYI - you do realise the Petition for a second EU referendum was created by a Brexit voter before the results came in thinking it would be a remain vote.

[MajorFU]

FYI - you do realise the Petition for a second EU referendum was created by a Brexit voter before the results came in thinking it would be a remain vote.

that's bollox but funny if true

[Northernbloke]

It's true - he posted a statement about it earlier

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Bald Bouncer]

that's bollox but funny if true

The clues are there anyway even if he had not come forward as it was ill conceived with a major flaw, it has no chance of happening as it relies on retrospective legislation and you can't impose rules after the event.

[Mule]

I just hope im not deported when im in England for being a "Traitor" as is being bounded around on one of my local facebook pages near where I spend a lot of time (canterbury)....yep good old Christian tolerant Canterbury's residents some of them are calling remain voters traitors and saying we should be deported to France lol.....That's what we are dealing with and before all this it was never thus !!

I think earlier in the thread this was outed as bollocks.

[flumperino]

@Bald bouncer

Agree with that. The premise behind the petition is quite silly.

Plus you could apply any figure you want. "Turnout was 95%, but ahhhhh....it's not legitimate without 99%'.

[Mule]

The people adding their name to the petition are chancers. I just think they are hoping to undo the incredible amount of damage that has happened since Thursday but mostly with no strong agenda, it's just an outlet for their fantasies.

[DavidF]

I think earlier in the thread this was outed as bollocks.

Lol really ? I am a member of Canterbury Residents Group are you ? Anyway just in-case a link is "needed" here you go - You may have to join to see the discussion im not sure but do check out the lovely discussion where remainers are told we should be deported. https://www.facebook.com/groups/cant...2565545996869/
Sorry I try not to post bs...it is only rarely that I let my guard down.

Kim White deport the stay in europe voters, they are treasonous self-serving and cant ever be trusted in our country, plenty of room in europe for them all, we`d even pay their fares so we can feel safe from the betrayers of our Magna Carta.

BTW Canterbury's economy relies on foreign students and visitors and has done for about 30 years....since the "borders opened" Canterbury has boomed....with all the problems that come with lots of cash but no investment in infrastructure.....Im sure being unemployed will make the few happy lol. The Uni was already looking at job cuts due to slightly lower students...Ironically Canterbury's biggest grip in the last 20 years have been students and tourists....you really couldn't make it up.

[Mule]

I like how quick this guy is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2oWFi80vaE

[Mule]

Lol really ? I am a member of Canterbury Residents Group are you ? Anyway just in-case a link is "needed" here you go - You may have to join to see the discussion im not sure but do check out the lovely discussion where remainers are told we should be deported. https://www.facebook.com/groups/cant...2565545996869/

I did say "I think" someone did mention Canterbury earlier in the thread. Since you've decided to argue the point though, messages on a facebook group mean shit all.

[piggzy]

So now Scotland are saying they are looking at using some power (I forget what she said) that would enable the Scottish parliament to block the leave.

Do they have the power or is Sturgeon talking shit again ?

[DavidF]

I did say "I think" someone did mention Canterbury earlier in the thread. Since you've decided to argue the point though, messages on a facebook group mean shit all.

I know they mean shit all but they do point out a feeling of division that isn't going away. For what it's worth I was a bit terse in my reply to you. I can see where you got mixed up as the post earlier about Britains 1st holding a protest outside a polling station did indeed turn out to be bollox.
My whole point is this has divided us all and I can't see how this will be easily glossed over. Young/old/London/rest of england/scotland/england. Do you know what I think may happen - IF somehow the EU survives then the younger generation WILL drag the rest kicking and screaming straight back into a fully integrated EU with Euro and all the other stuff the euro sceptics were frightened of. So many possibilities really - Scotland breakaway possible, Ireland breakaway possible, Even Wales when they realise that the EU funding DID actually provide many with jobs...not enough jobs but they did provide them. Traditional Westminster governments do not favour investing in north of watford including Wales and the like. If that happens then there will be no "UK" to drag back into the EU just 3 or 4 small nations doing shit deals compared to the ones we had in place a week ago.