Parking Ticket

[evilsatan]

I just got a parking ticket from a council car park. I had parked my car and gone into the nearest shop for some change, I was back at the car just over 5 minutes later and there was someone writing out the ticket. I explained I had just got there and gone to get change but he said there was nothing he could do.

On the ticket he printed it said I was displaying an expired ticket, it said my ticket expired at 14:08 and he was there at 14:19-14:20. This ticket was weeks old but I had left it on my dash, I still have this ticket.

Do I just pay the ticket? What happens if I don't? (Other than it doubling after 14 days) Rather pissed off that I genuinely went for change and explained it but he still printed the ticket.

Cheers

[GTI]

Going off to get change isn't an excuse I'm afraid, so either way you will have to pony up the fine.

[Little John]

You have nothing to loose putting the fine in to dispute, I did a few month ago just incase they decided to let me off.

Leaving the old ticket on your window is stupid as the guy rightly booked you for displaying an expired ticket. if you had no ticket then it would have been for failure to display a ticket which claiming to have gone for change is easier to use as an excuse.

Just dispute it ASAP and it delays the increase of the fine until the dispute is settled, then just pay the lower amount if you don't win the dispute.

[evilsatan]

I hadn't left the ticket there on purpose, there were 2 tickets being displayed. I don't think either ticket was even for that car park so he obviously doesn't check them properly.

Cheers for the info LJ will give it a go.

[Zippeyrude]

doesnt sound like you have much to stand on, unless you can find a weakness.

most local authorities have an unpublished policy of waiving the first tickets under certain circumstances, so i would certainly try and contest it. most also extend the 14 day period once you have submitted the correspondence - check with your authority just to be sure - i seem to recall this is a recent change in guidance produced by either the adjudicator or revised traffic legislation.

ultimately i think that you are not in a strong position legally to have the ticket overturned. A case used often in parking adjudication is Strong v Dawtry, where obtaining change for a parking meter was addressed and the 'reasonable' nature of obtaining change. This case ruled that in relation to a meter bay, a reasonable time to pay is restricted to "such reasonable time as is involved in getting out of the driving seat and putting the coin into the meter." This time does not, unfortunately for you, extend to time spent in getting change. also see Riley v Hunt, on related circumstances.


if you are minded send them a freedom of information request, some questions are included below. this shouldnt cost anything and may give you evidence on which to contest the ticket.

1. PLEASE SEND A COPY OF THE FULL TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ORDER (NOT A SUMMARY) WHICH IS VITAL TO OUR APPEAL We dispute the validity of your Traffic Management Order -please therefore send a copy of the full traffic management order (NOT A SUMMARY) that you claim relates to the alleged contravention and which is vital to our appeal.

2. IF YOU DO NOT SEND THE TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ORDER WE WILL ASSUME THAT YOU AGREE THAT IT IS INVALID AND SO ADVISE THE PARKING ADJUDICATOR IF APPRPRIATE. (Note: Any reference in this appeal to a “TMO” is a reference to a Traffic Management Order.)

3. The council’s full protocols covering the issue of PCNs on the alleged contravention above (see note below)


4. Please let me have a copy of the CEO's note book (see above) for the day of the alleged contravention showing the entry(ies) for the alleged contravention.

5. All photographic evidence you have in relation to the alleged contravention. Including inter alia a photograph of the vehicle on the date and at the time of the alleged contravention such photograph showing the vehicle, lines and signage together.

6. Please explain precisely how you synchronise the time on your CEOs’ cameras with

a. their handheld computers and

b. your pay display machines

7. Confirmation whether or not the CEO is still employed by the council or contractor.

8. If not the reason for the CEO leaving employment.

9. The penalty charge notice was issued by a CEO who we believe was not employed by the authority but by a third party, sub contractor. As the onus is on the authority to prove that the CEO was authorised to issue the penalty charge notice please send us a copy of the full contract appointing the subcontractor and a copy of the employment contract between the CEO and the subcontractor or if employed by the council his/her employment contract.

10. Please indicate in your response whether this appeal has been considered by one of your employees (i.e. a person directly employed by you and paid by you), or by someone who is employed by a contractor.

also ask for a full copy of the contract in electronic form, advising them to justify any information they deem exempt from disclosure fully with reference to exemptions and where relevant their full public interest test considerations.

Statutory guidance linky below, if any of this has not been followed you may have grounds to appeal.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...tutoryguid.pdf

[jaguar982]

Fkin hell zippeyrude might go n get myself a ticket just so i can piss em off askin for all that

jag

[Zippeyrude]

Fkin hell zippeyrude might go n get myself a ticket just so i can piss em off askin for all that

jag

we aim to please

just dont tell em your doing it to piss em off as this is one of the few grounds that they will have to refuse to reply to your request (s14 FOIA). basically you can bombard the cunts with emails and get your 50 quids worth. infact create a bunch of email addys and as long as the name is credible you can fire stacks of requests in. each individual request permits upto 18 hours worth of work.....

[jaguar982]

Oh revenge is soooo sweet money well spent

jag

[DejaVu]

basically you can bombard the cunts with emails and get your 50 quids worth. infact create a bunch of email addys and as long as the name is credible you can fire stacks of requests in. each individual request permits upto 18 hours worth of work.....

Why did I not know of this before hand? I would do this WITHOUT a parking ticket. If it's keeping them busy bogged down with paper work, it gives them less time to penalise people for the smallest of offences!

WE SHOULD ALL DO THIS AT LEAST 3 TIMES A DAY!!! LOL

[Clubber Lang]

doesnt sound like you have much to stand on, unless you can find a weakness.

most local authorities have an unpublished policy of waiving the first tickets under certain circumstances, so i would certainly try and contest it. most also extend the 14 day period once you have submitted the correspondence - check with your authority just to be sure - i seem to recall this is a recent change in guidance produced by either the adjudicator or revised traffic legislation.

ultimately i think that you are not in a strong position legally to have the ticket overturned. A case used often in parking adjudication is Strong v Dawtry, where obtaining change for a parking meter was addressed and the 'reasonable' nature of obtaining change. This case ruled that in relation to a meter bay, a reasonable time to pay is restricted to "such reasonable time as is involved in getting out of the driving seat and putting the coin into the meter." This time does not, unfortunately for you, extend to time spent in getting change. also see Riley v Hunt, on related circumstances.


if you are minded send them a freedom of information request, some questions are included below. this shouldnt cost anything and may give you evidence on which to contest the ticket.

1. PLEASE SEND A COPY OF THE FULL TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ORDER (NOT A SUMMARY) WHICH IS VITAL TO OUR APPEAL We dispute the validity of your Traffic Management Order -please therefore send a copy of the full traffic management order (NOT A SUMMARY) that you claim relates to the alleged contravention and which is vital to our appeal.

2. IF YOU DO NOT SEND THE TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT ORDER WE WILL ASSUME THAT YOU AGREE THAT IT IS INVALID AND SO ADVISE THE PARKING ADJUDICATOR IF APPRPRIATE. (Note: Any reference in this appeal to a “TMO” is a reference to a Traffic Management Order.)

3. The council’s full protocols covering the issue of PCNs on the alleged contravention above (see note below)


4. Please let me have a copy of the CEO's note book (see above) for the day of the alleged contravention showing the entry(ies) for the alleged contravention.

5. All photographic evidence you have in relation to the alleged contravention. Including inter alia a photograph of the vehicle on the date and at the time of the alleged contravention such photograph showing the vehicle, lines and signage together.

6. Please explain precisely how you synchronise the time on your CEOs’ cameras with

a. their handheld computers and

b. your pay display machines

7. Confirmation whether or not the CEO is still employed by the council or contractor.

8. If not the reason for the CEO leaving employment.

9. The penalty charge notice was issued by a CEO who we believe was not employed by the authority but by a third party, sub contractor. As the onus is on the authority to prove that the CEO was authorised to issue the penalty charge notice please send us a copy of the full contract appointing the subcontractor and a copy of the employment contract between the CEO and the subcontractor or if employed by the council his/her employment contract.

10. Please indicate in your response whether this appeal has been considered by one of your employees (i.e. a person directly employed by you and paid by you), or by someone who is employed by a contractor.

also ask for a full copy of the contract in electronic form, advising them to justify any information they deem exempt from disclosure fully with reference to exemptions and where relevant their full public interest test considerations.

Statutory guidance linky below, if any of this has not been followed you may have grounds to appeal.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/...tutoryguid.pdf

Quality post dude.

[evilsatan]

Superb info mate, thanks left but I can't leave karma too. Thanks for the info!