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  1. #1
    DF VIP Member xdir's Avatar
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    Default I will not apologise, says Mayor

    http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/pol...p?story=611335
    Ken Livingstone vowed today he would not apologise for comparing a Jewish reporter to a concentration camp guard, saying his words were "offensive but not racist".

    The Mayor of London told a City Hall press conference: "You can make the case my remarks were offensive and that they may be actionable and may have recourse in law but you can't make the case they were racist."

    Despite calls from Holocaust survivors and his own Labour Party colleagues to say sorry, and fears that it could damage the Olympic bid, Mr Livingstone said he was not budging.

    "I have been through several of these media firestorms. I have always had the view that if I had made a mistake I would apologise," he said.

    "I am not going to apologise if I do not believe that I have not done something wrong. I am not going to appease media pressure by lying."

    And not even if Prime Minister Tony Blair were to demand an apology, would he back down, he said.

    "(When) I went back to the Labour Party he made it absolutely clear it was my job to do my job," Mr Livingstone said.

    "He has no intention of making me Foreign Secretary and we have our respective roles. He is not there to manage me. He is not answerable to my mistakes or successes. We are judged separately and independently."

    He is waiting to hear if local government watchdogs, the Standards Board for England, will launch an official investigation which could see him suspended or barred from office.

    He does not believe the row will damage the Olympic bid, which today reaches a crucial stage as International Olympic Committee officials begin an inspection.

    Mr Livingstone claimed he had been the subject of a 24-year hate campaign by Associated Newspapers, owner of the Evening Standard and the Daily Mail.

    In fact Mr Livingstone appeared to suggest that his determination to stand up for what he believes in may impress IOC officials.

    He said: "I think it is important that the IOC members realise that when we get the games and inevitably there will be some in the media that are going to go for them, and that they have a mayor who is not going to panic, change course or get in a great flap but will deliver the games on time and to budget."

    Mr Livingstone made his controversial comments on being approached by Evening Standard reporter Oliver Finegold after a party at City Hall marking the 20-year anniversary of former culture secretary Chris Smith coming out as Britain's first openly gay MP.

    Referring to the decision of the Daily Mail - the Evening Standard's sister paper - to support Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists in the 1930s, he first asked Mr Finegold if he was a "German war criminal".

    On learning that the reporter was Jewish, he said: "You're just like a concentration camp guard. You're just doing it because you're paid to, aren't you?"

    "I am not seeking to make that comparison if anyone got that impression that was wrong. I don't suggest for one minute that has anything to do with the Holocaust which is a uniquely horrific period in history."

    He denied he was comparing his troubles to that of Holocaust survivors.

    He said: "It is the thin end of the wedge when reporters say to me 'I'm only doing this because this is my job'.

    "That is the same abdication of moral responsibility, the thin edge of the wedge that in its extreme horrific version that ends up being compared to standing around like a concentration camp guard. You are responsible for your own choices in life. I have always been."

    If being rude to journalists were to be made a criminal offence, Mr Livingstone said he would have to have "about 300 offences" from the past 20 years taken into account.

    Bob Neill, leader of the London Assembly Conservatives, said: "Ken Livingstone must be the only person left in London, possibly Britain, who does not think he should apologise.

    "How long can the Mayor go on refusing to say sorry?

    "This row has done incalculable damage to his reputation, to his long-term position as Mayor - and to London's Olympic bid."

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  2. #2
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    What a non story - gobby mayor upsets journo so effing what - it's only maintained a high profile as the Evening Standard along with it's sister paper the Daily Mail is pandering to it's right of centre audience by some Labour party bashing.

    It's certainly an offensive remark but so what he's an elected official if you don't like what he said don't vote for him.

  3. #3
    DF VIP Member marcode's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    who

    gives

    a

    ****.

  4. #4
    DF Probation Porthos's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Well said.

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    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by digidump
    What a non story - gobby mayor upsets journo so effing what - it's only maintained a high profile as the Evening Standard along with it's sister paper the Daily Mail is pandering to it's right of centre audience by some Labour party bashing.

    It's certainly an offensive remark but so what he's an elected official if you don't like what he said don't vote for him.
    Wrong ! He wasnt elected to insult people and hopefully the (unt will be sued.

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    DF VIP Member crazyadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    omg!!!

    i for one cant stand livingstone, but to say what he said was rascist is crap..the comment didnt refer to him being this or that because he was jewish!!!! if the guy was acting like a concentration camp guard then it was a just comparison!! i really do believe that a majority of people in this country, because of all the pc stuff, have no idea of the definition of rascist!!

  7. #7
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2
    Wrong ! He wasnt elected to insult people and hopefully the (unt will be sued.
    He wasn't elected to scratch his bollocks whilst at work either but I'll bet he probably does and what he's going to be sued for being a bit short in a public place ?

    You must read the Daily Mail as there is no story here otherwise.

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    DF VIP Member Zippeyrude's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    he clearly isnt a racist, he was offensive to a fookin journalist, good for him.

  9. #9
    DF VIP Member xdir's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    from : http://politics.guardian.co.uk/gla/c...415412,00.html
    "The guests at the reception to honour the 20th anniversary of Chris Smith's coming-out were beginning to leave and the reporter's question to Ken Livingstone was a proper one: "Was it a good party? What does it mean for you?" But the London mayor's response was abrupt: "What did you do before? Were you a German war criminal?" "No," countered the Evening Standard's Oliver Finegold: "I'm Jewish. I wasn't a German war criminal, and I'm actually quite offended by that. So how did tonight go?" Once again, Mr Livingstone refused a direct answer. "Arr right, well you might be [Jewish], but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to.""

    The Concentration Camp jibe is interesting as it also could be leveled at any politician who goes against moral conviction and follows party lines.

  10. #10
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by digidump
    He wasn't elected to scratch his bollocks whilst at work either but I'll bet he probably does and what he's going to be sued for being a bit short in a public place ?

    You must read the Daily Mail as there is no story here otherwise.
    Wrong its been allover the news on TV .

    Now if hed been making a comment to a muslim Im 100% certain youd be reacting in a different way judging by your past views and comments. If anyone dares to crticise assylum seekers or muslims you always without fail jump out of your pram and come in with all bugles blazing to the defense . You seem however to endorce this one because its a jew involved , well that speaks volumes. :nowords:

  11. #11
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2
    Wrong its been allover the news on TV .
    Doesn't matter where it's shown / written about my point is that Daily Mail readers have a particular view of the world and if you believe there is a story here then you in some share their view.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2
    Now if hed been making a comment to a muslim Im 100% certain youd be reacting in a different way judging by your past views and comments. If anyone dares to crticise assylum seekers or muslims you always without fail jump out of your pram and come in with all bugles blazing to the defense . You seem however to endorce this one because its a jew involved , well that speaks volumes. :nowords:
    If this comment had been made by somebody other than Ken Livingstone then ' Im 100% certain youd be reacting in a different way' etc etc etc

    Do bugles blaze ?

    Not sure I like the inference that I am in some way anti semitic.

  12. #12
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by digidump
    Doesn't matter where it's shown / written about my point is that Daily Mail readers have a particular view of the world and if you believe there is a story here then you in some share their view.



    If this comment had been made by somebody other than Ken Livingstone then ' Im 100% certain youd be reacting in a different way' etc etc etc

    Do bugles blaze ?

    Not sure I like the inference that I am in some way anti semitic.
    Im not a daily mail reader !

    You are trying to justify the injustifyable and you know your wrong .

    The antisemtic bit speaks for itself by your actions past and present ie constantly defending Islamists and Assylum seekers but on this story you completely dismiss it . To add insult to injury you try to blame a single newspaper and challenge the mentality of its readers when Livingstone himself has been on TV and admitted saying everything and refusing to apologise.

  13. #13
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=629 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>Blair says mayor should apologise

    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=416><!-- S BO --><!-- S IIMA --><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=203 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD> Ken Livingstone has refused to apologise for the remarks

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- E IIMA -->Tony Blair has urged London mayor Ken Livingstone to apologise for his Nazi insult to a Jewish reporter.

    Labour's Mr Livingstone, who says he is "standing by" his remarks, had accused an Evening Standard journalist of being like a "concentration camp guard".

    But the prime minister told Five's Wright Stuff show: "Let's just apologise and move on." Mr Livingstone argued on Tuesday the remarks may have been offensive but were not racist. And he said he would not change his mind if the prime minister urged him to do so.<!-- E BO -->



    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4269979.stm

  14. #14
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2
    Im not a daily mail reader !

    You are trying to justify the injustifyable and you know your wrong .

    The antisemtic bit speaks for itself by your actions past and present ie constantly defending Islamists and Assylum seekers but on this story you completely dismiss it . To add insult to injury you try to blame a single newspaper and challenge the mentality of its readers when Livingstone himself has been on TV and admitted saying everything and refusing to apologise.

    Anti semitism is hostility (rascism?) towards Jews and I don't think you can infer I am racist by anything I have posted. Not sure of the link to asylum seekers as the journalist involved is Jewish and comes from a family who moved here to escape religious persecution in Russia in the 1880's.

    I am not denying what happened - it's all on tape and is quoted earlier in the thread.

    Surely your views are coloured more by a long standing opinion of Mr Livingstone rather than the facts ?
    Last edited by digidump; 16th February 2005 at 11:56 AM. Reason: typos

  15. #15
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    I don't think he should apologise
    The remarks he made where not an attack on the journalists religious beliefs.
    Before the Mayor knew the journalist was Jewish he mentioned ‘Nazi war criminal’, so I don’t see how that comment can be classed as anti-Semitic.

    “Arr right, well you might be [Jewish], but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to."
    Sounds like he is using this as purpose of analogy.
    He used the term in a negative context, not glorifying concentration camp guards or Nazi war criminals.

    The only reason this is an issues is because yet again the press are dictating what we should get upset / shocked about.
    Frankly there are fair more important things going on in the world than this non-story.

    Oh and the Standard is the biggest load of shit I have had the displeasure to read in a long time. It’s got the same racist bigot views as the Daily Mail, its sister paper.

    Can you imagine what it must be like having arsehole journalists following your every move?
    I think I would have lamped the twat too be honest.
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  16. #16
    DF Probation Porthos's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Digidump you're argument seems to have weakened throughout the thread. 4me2's 'link to asylum seekers' was not related to the story but an illustration of how you react differently in similair situations depending on who is involved, ie asylum seeker or Jew. Incidentally I don't disagree or agree with 4me2 there because I havn't seen your other postings. Incidentally I think its a non-story and don't care about it but its interestng to see what other people think on the thread incase it may change my mind. I will say one thing, and this doesn't comment on the severity/acceptableness of what he did, but if journalists got half as much abuse as they gave celebrities then this would certainly be no biig deal.

  17. #17
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by digidump

    Surely your views are coloured more by a long standing opinion of Mr Livingstone rather than the facts ?
    actually they arent and I quite admired him quitting the labour party to become Mayor as Blair tried to impose his will against public opinion and gravely lost. However Ken since rejoining the party seems to think his shit doesnt stink and really is losing the plot.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    I've got to agree that this is a non story, in a world full of horrible shite the best story the fukin news media can come up with is some throw away line from one human being to another which meant nothing.

    Fukin shameless, ridiculous and a waste of every f**kers time and energy.

  19. #19
    DF Probation Porthos's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    I've seen worse insults in the playground as a kid.

  20. #20
    DF VIP Member wizer's Avatar
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    Re: I will not apologise, says Mayor

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos
    I've seen worse insults in the playground as a kid.

    ...............Gutter?



    Course he shouldn't appologise
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