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  1. #1
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Snipers with children in their sights

    Palestinian civilians have been killed by the army with impunity

    It was the shooting of Asma Mughayar that swept away any lingering doubts I had about how it is the Israeli army kills so many Palestinian children and civilians.

    Asma, 16, and her younger brother, Ahmad, were collecting laundry from the roof of their home in the south of the Gaza Strip in May last year when they were felled by an Israeli army sniper. Neither child was armed or threatening the soldier, who fired unseen through a hole punched in the wall of a neighbouring block of flats.

    Article continues
    The army said the two were blown up by a Palestinian bomb planted to kill soldiers. The corpses offered a different account. In Rafah's morgue, Asma lay with a single bullet hole through her temple; her 13-year-old brother had a lone shot to his forehead. There were no other injuries, certainly none consistent with a blast.

    Confronted with this, the army changed its account and claimed the pair were killed by a Palestinian, though there was persuasive evidence pointing to the Israeli sniper's nest. What the military did not do was ask its soldiers why they gave a false account of the deaths or speak to the children's parents or any other witnesses.

    When reporters pressed the issue, the army promised a full investigation, but a few weeks later it was quietly dropped. This has become the norm in a military that appears to value protecting itself from accountability more than living up to its claim to be the "most moral army in the world".

    As Tom Hurndall's parents noted yesterday after the conviction of an Israeli sergeant for the manslaughter of their son, the soldier was put on trial only because the British family had the resources to bring pressure to bear. But there has been no justice for the parents of hundreds of Palestinian children killed by Israeli soldiers.

    According to the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem, the army has killed 1,722 Palestinian civilians - more than one-third of them minors - as well as 1,519 combatants, since the intifada began nearly five years ago; the comparable Israeli figures are 658 civilians killed - 17% minors - along with 309 military. The army has investigated just 90 Palestinian deaths, usually under outside pressure. Seven soldiers have been convicted: three for manslaughter, none for murder.

    Last month, a military court sentenced a soldier to 20 months in prison for shooting dead a Palestinian man as he adjusted his TV aerial, the longest sentence yet for killing a civilian, and less than Israeli conscientious objectors have got for refusing to serve in the army.

    B'Tselem argues that a lack of accountability and rules of engagement that "encourage a trigger-happy attitude among soldiers" have created a "culture of impunity" - a view backed by the New York-based Human Rights Watch, which last week described many army investigations of civilian killings as a "sham ... that encourages soldiers to think they can literally get away with murder".

    In southern Gaza, the killings take place in a climate that amounts to a form of terror against the population. Random fire into Rafah and Khan Yunis has claimed hundreds of lives, including five children shot as they sat at their school desks. Many others have died when the snipers must have known who was in their sights - children playing football, sitting outside home, walking back from school. Almost always "investigations" amount to asking the soldier who pulled the trigger what happened - often they claim there was a gun battle when there was none - and presenting it as fact.

    The military police launched an investigation into the death of Iman al-Hams last October only after soldiers went public about the circumstances in which their commander emptied his gun into the 12-year-old. He was recorded telling his men that the girl should be killed even if she were three.

    Colonel Pinhas Zuaretz was commander in southern Gaza two years ago when I asked him about the scale of the killing. The colonel, who rewrote the rules of engagement to permit soldiers to shoot children as young as 14, acknowledged that official versions of several killings were wrong, but justified the tactics as the price of the struggle for survival against a second Holocaust.

    Perhaps that view was shared by the soldier who shot dead three 15-year-old boys, Hassan Abu Zeid, Ashraf Mousa and Khaled Ghanem, as they approached the fortified border between Gaza and Egypt in April. The military said the teenagers were weapons smugglers and therefore "terrorists", and that the soldier shot them in the legs and only killed them when they failed to stop.

    The account was a fabrication. The teenagers were in a "forbidden zone" but kicking a ball. Their corpses showed no evidence of wounds to disable them, only single high-calibre shots to the head or back. The army quietly admitted as much - but there would be no investigation.

    Chris McGreal
    Tuesday June 28, 2005
    The Guardian

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...516268,00.html
    Last edited by digidump; 28th June 2005 at 03:40 PM. Reason: link added

  2. #2
    ABCMan
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    hmm just like the islamic suicide bombers do then

  3. #3
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Quote Originally Posted by ABCMan
    hmm just like the islamic suicide bombers do then
    exactly the same only the israelis are better at it - don't you find it appalling they have killed around 600 children in the last 5 years and only yesterday found a sargeant guilty of manslaughter and not murder of British student Tom Hurndall ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4625355.stm) ?
    Last edited by digidump; 28th June 2005 at 03:52 PM.

  4. #4
    ABCMan
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    to be honest, no i dont find it appalling, both sides are as bad as each other in this "conflict" and untill the isrealis give palestine to the palestinians and untill the palestinians stop using the mosques to indoctrinate children into becoming suicide bombers there will be innocents dying on both sides.

    the isrealis are (too)slowly pulling out, but sadly the islamics are still preaching their hatred, it needs both sides for peace just as it needs both sides for the slaughter to continue

  5. #5
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Quote Originally Posted by ABCMan
    to be honest, no i dont find it appalling, both sides are as bad as each other in this "conflict" and untill the isrealis give palestine to the palestinians and untill the palestinians stop using the mosques to indoctrinate children into becoming suicide bombers there will be innocents dying on both sides.

    the isrealis are (too)slowly pulling out, but sadly the islamics are still preaching their hatred, it needs both sides for peace just as it needs both sides for the slaughter to continue
    But a disproportionate amount of publicity given to the suicide bombings as it took the death of a UK citizen to raise the Israeli side of the slaughter as an issue in the UK press

    Also doesn't the case of Tom Hurndall raise important questions about the lack of proper judicial process in Israel i.e. how can a single bullet shot to the head be manslaughter and must raise questions about whether systemic killing of civilians is part of the Israeli army policy.

  6. #6
    DF VIP Member lombie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Digidump - care to make any points about the photographs on this site?:-

    Click Me

    I would like to add that i came across the site from a website i frequent.

    I have no allegiance to the site whatsoever, just interested on your (blinkered) views.

  7. #7
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Quote Originally Posted by lombie
    Digidump - care to make any points about the photographs on this site?:-

    Click Me

    I would like to add that i came across the site from a website i frequent.

    I have no allegiance to the site whatsoever, just interested on your (blinkered) views.
    Err what's that link got to do with this thread ?

  8. #8
    DF VIP Member lombie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Quote Originally Posted by digidump
    Err what's that link got to do with this thread ?
    Israeli/Islamic atrocoties?

  9. #9
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Quote Originally Posted by lombie
    Israeli/Islamic atrocoties?
    I still don't understand.

  10. #10
    DF VIP Member lombie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Quote Originally Posted by digidump
    I still don't understand.
    What are you having trouble grasping?

  11. #11
    DF VIP Member digidump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    Quote Originally Posted by lombie
    What are you having trouble grasping?
    What the the site you linked to (an australian site ? expressing anti muslim views) has to do with the Israeli army shooting Palestian children ?

  12. #12
    DF VIP Member leo_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    I have commented on palestinean and israili situation in several other threads before. I think at the moment, they are both as bad as each other.. killing innocent people from both sides isnt going to achieve anything. But one thing that you DO have to rememeber is who is illegally occupying whose land. Sooner israilis get ouf of palestine, sooner the innocent people will live in peace.

    Originally Posted by lombie
    Digidump - care to make any points about the photographs on this site?:-
    Are you trying to prove that muslims are "wierd and evil" and hence must be killed? I am with Digidump on this one that this has nothing to do with this topic.

  13. #13
    DF VIP Member The Toker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Snipers with children in their sights

    A lot of pictures on that site could have been "anything, anywhere", just because someone has typed some text underneath it doesn't prove they are what they claim to be.

    Sure some of them are truly horrific to look at, but with comments like "Muslim Immigrants attacking a white person. I think this one is from London." - how can you tell from that picture the Muslims are immigrants, and thinking it is London is simply not a fact, more guesswork.

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