Justice 4 Andrew

[snow white]

Well I hope I'm posting in the right section, please check out this website.

http://www.justice4andrew.bravehost.com

[BertRoot]

Hasn't this already been done on here? I would have at least put a bit more info apart for 'check out this website.'

[MercuryRises]

Yes it has been here before. Snow White posted it in the thread about criminal records

http://www.digital-forums.com/showth...light=criminal

[snow white]

Since then a web site as been built, a lot of you guys would know him as L4yer Ca3e, I assume that's how he wrote his user name, according to his mum.

[Spennyboy]

oh shit,

L4yer Cak3 : http://www.digital-forums.com/member.php?u=177302

didnt realise it was one of our own.

[-G-Man-]

feel sorry for the lad. Ive heard so many stories about how bad the police are in this country lately it really is becoming a concern.

An example: There was a sexual asualt in an ally next to y aunties house a few weeks back and a pair of womens trousers where thrown into her back yard. She bagged them up and the old bill said they would come around right away to collect them.

2 weeks later they are still there, they just dont give a fuck.

[Pegasus]

I have read Andrew's "story", and although he claims that he checked with the local police with regard to the legality of owning a replica handgun, it is unfortunate for him that the law changed that very year and made handguns (including replica's) prohibited weapons.

Unfortunately, ignorance is no defence and punishment for posession of a prohibited weapon is an automatic minimum 5 years unless there are extenuating circumstances.

[BertRoot]

Sorry to L4yer Cak3 but I don't see what good a petition will do even if the whole country signs it. The law is quite clear and will come down like a ton of bricks I'm afraid.

[burner1]

If, in reality, the evidence is against the prosecution, ultimately he will get out. But I think calling a website 'guns2thugs' is really a field day for the prosecution though, I know he was goind to change it, but this is such a PC/gun weilding nutter/terrorist mongering society we live in at the moment, it won't help his case I'm afraid.

[Deadly]

The judge has allready told him he's going to face a lengthy prison sentence

I feel totally gutted for him, i met him on DF when i was thinking of buying a blank gun and he was looking for info on them aswell, and i'd been talking to him on msn since then. I still remember when he started the website etc, i never thought in a million years it would end up with him facing a good part of 10 years in jail A sentence like that is just crazy.

You can read the last news story here

http://www.thisisnottingham.com/disp...=sidebarsearch

[dirtyrider]

I feel for him too, he pm`d me just before he went to court.
Similar thing happened with me and Stun torch/guns, sold a few here and there.
I got charged with section 51b firearms act.
I got lucky(thanks to Tuckers solicetors,Mark Jackson from here) and escaped a prison sentance.
Hope it turns out better for him and he gets out soon.

[oE]

I have read Andrew's "story", and although he claims that he checked with the local police with regard to the legality of owning a replica handgun, it is unfortunate for him that the law changed that very year and made handguns (including replica's) prohibited weapons.

Unfortunately, ignorance is no defence and punishment for posession of a prohibited weapon is an automatic minimum 5 years unless there are extenuating circumstances.

I have to agree with Pegasus on this one. At no point during buying or selling these did he not think that it may come back on him. After all Section 5 law was under review for the last few years - writing to them once does not consitute a defence.

oE.

[Pegasus]

i never thought in a million years it would end up with him facing a good part of 10 years in jail A sentence like that is just crazy.

What's crazy about it?

Posession of a prohibited weapon used to earn you somewhere in the region of 18 months to 2 years jail time, but it soon became apparent that a lot of people weren't that bothered about the prospect of such a pissy sentence and were more than happy to walk around carrying a firearm.

Couple that up with a high percentage of shootings that are invariably gang/crime/drug related and it soon becomes apparent that the government will get mighty pissed off at all these people who are happy to pull the trigger of their very easily obtained weapon of choice.

Even though the weapons sold by Andrew were only capable of firing flares & CS gas cannisters, you get one of those at point blank range and there is a very good chance you will not live to tell the tale (in fact, a flare gun will kill at point blank range if the shot is aimed at the head or torso).

I doubt he will end up with a 10 stretch, but he is definately going down for a 5 no matter what.

Well I hope I'm posting in the right section, please check out this website.

http://www.justice4andrew.bravehost.com

Let me get this right Snow White...

You want people here to sympathise with Andrew because you feel he has done nothing wrong, yet in every other post you have contributed to that involves the discussion of weapons, you are on your moral high horse saying that anyone who carries a gun (be it real or fake) should be banged up.

Double standards don't you think?

[snow white]

What's crazy about it?

Posession of a prohibited weapon used to earn you somewhere in the region of 18 months to 2 years jail time, but it soon became apparent that a lot of people weren't that bothered about the prospect of such a pissy sentence and were more than happy to walk around carrying a firearm.

Couple that up with a high percentage of shootings that are invariably gang/crime/drug related and it soon becomes apparent that the government will get mighty pissed off at all these people who are happy to pull the trigger of their very easily obtained weapon of choice.

Even though the weapons sold by Andrew were only capable of firing flares & CS gas cannisters, you get one of those at point blank range and there is a very good chance you will not live to tell the tale (in fact, a flare gun will kill at point blank range if the shot is aimed at the head or torso).

I doubt he will end up with a 10 stretch, but he is definately going down for a 5 no matter what.



Let me get this right Snow White...

You want people here to sympathise with Andrew because you feel he has done nothing wrong, yet in every other post you have contributed to that involves the discussion of weapons, you are on your moral high horse saying that anyone who carries a gun (be it real or fake) should be banged up.

Double standards don't you think?

I am saying that if anyone misuses a gun or carries them on the streets then yes thay should be banged up. Andrew was not misusing them or carrying them openly on the street.

[oE]

I wonder what the people who bought them ended up doing with them?

If any were re-activated or used in their current form to intimerdate some one to perform a crime?

Personly I got no sympathy for him.

oE.

[TheManWho]

I am saying that if anyone misuses a gun or carries them on the streets then yes thay should be banged up. Andrew was not misusing them or carrying them openly on the street.

To put it another and much more simpler way: you detest the drug addict but the drug dealer gets away scot free? :nowords:

I like Layer Cake, I don't know if we've had much one to one conversations, he contributed well to DF, and I feel for the guy, I really do, it's hard not too. I only hope that by calling his website gunsg2thugs, won't be the final nail in his coffin, as the name is not big nor clever and I'm sure the judge won't look upon it lightly.

Good luck for the 28th LC

[Pegasus]

Andrew was not misusing them or carrying them openly on the street.

Whether he carried it or not is neither here nor there, the courts will take the view that if it were not for people like Andrew then obtaining a firearm would be considerably more difficult and therefore there wouldn't be as many on the streets to start with.

Now it has become apparent that Andrew was selling weapons that were capable of causing death to whoever they were pointed at, I am not surprised to read that the judge is talking double figures for a sentence (especially as he set up a website called "guns2thugs" in order to sell them).

If the social reports can get across the message to the judge that Andrew really didn't have a clue as to the seriousness of what he was doing, then he may just get away with the mandatory minimum sentence (which is 5 years).
On the other hand, if the judge refuses to believe that anybody could really be that stupid, then Andrew has to look at the possibility of a longer custodial sentence.

One thing Andrew has to stop doing right now is the "self harming" trip. All this will achieve is that Andrew ends up on "Fraggle Rock" (prison slang term for the nutters ward in the prison hospital) where he will simply be drugged up to the eyeballs until he is virtually comatose.
This state is achieved by dosing the prisoner up with a drug called Chlorpromazine and is more commonly known as Largactil (liquid cosh).

Anybody who has ever been on this drug for any length of time is never the same person again afterwards, and I cannot urge you enough to get this across to Andrew. Physical (and mental) side effects apart, the worst place you can be in any prison is the hospital wing, you are much better off in the "normal" environment.

If Andrew "behaves" himself, then he will more than likely end up with a "C" category rating and be transferred to a prison with a much easier regime within 6 months of being sentenced.
Once he is on "easy street", then he will be able to have the little luxeries such as a Playstation, DVD Player, etc in his cell. Another year or so of behaving himself, and he is well on his way to being in a semi open jail where he will be allowed out for the day with his visitors, etc.

The choice is his.

[WTD]

wise word from pt.

selling guns is wrong, even if they are replica. a gun shoved into your face when your being robbed will be as traumatic if its real or fake, and as has been mentioned before, ignorance is no defence.

[cleanrite]

I didnt know andrew was layer cake but reading his story makes you think how easy it is to be identified and prosecuted for something you thought was ok to do, until the law changes and you dont keep up to date with the changes.
It also makes you wonder what else plod and customs know about an individual, I would like to point out that if... they have his computer as they will have to see what contacts he has.
what details and sites they are now monitoring
emails they are reading etc..

so be careful if you are doing something you shouldnt be doing.

dont have sleepless nights watch crimewatch instead

[Deadly]

Pegasus Team - I think it's crazy because i've seen rapists get lighter sentences, i've seen drunk drivers who killed someone with their car get lighter sentences, i've seen robberys and allsorts get lighter sentences. If he was to get 10yrs, he might aswell of been selling real guns to al quaida!
This guy isn't a hardened criminal, as far as im aware it's even his first offence. I know ignorance is no defence, but he did do some homework before he started and from everything we gathered, they were legal aslong as they wern't taken into public places. This is obviously where he went wrong, by not getting 100% assurance they were legal.

Also, the police knew about him buying the guns in May 2004, yet they never bothered to do anything until October?! they can't have been that concerned with him if it took them 5 months to make an arrest. For all they knew he could of been converting them and they could of been used in murders or anything. If he was notified way back in May he would of stopped buying them immediately and all this could of been avoided.

oE - The police seized his computer and contacted everyone they could get hold of who purchased the weapons from him, so i've no idea what happened to all of them, i suppose they were merely cautioned or fined like most of them.

This is what annoys me, Andrew was never given the option of the caution/fine because the police failed to notify him about one gun being seized, in other cases i've read, when a gun gets seized, the police arrest the intended recipient for questioning and then decide what to do. If this had happened with Andrew he could of been cautioned or fined way back in May and it would of put an end to his idea of buying more and selling them on.

Makes me feel sick thinking about him locked up in there contemplating about how many years he's going to get jailed for I know i'd be struggling to cope if i was in his shoes

edit: Pegasus Team - Good advice regarding the self harm stuff mate...im not 100% sure who this Snow White person is, but i'll pass the information onto his mum.