So you suggest locking them up then @ABCMan ?
Very good.
Is this whole Moslem Vs Britain thing a daily fear for you now ?
So you suggest locking them up then @ABCMan ?
Very good.
Is this whole Moslem Vs Britain thing a daily fear for you now ?
realy so calling me a racist isnt playing the racist card? and it is my country, i live here and i want to live here, i dont owe my alligence to anywhere else and i dont offer support for those who do.Originally posted by Lebowski
im not pulling the racist card mate. you sound like a biggot from the way you put your lame points accross with crap like "my country".
I dont read the sun, so i'm afraid i wouldnt know what they say, whenever someone speaks out against the islamic faith in this country they are placing themselves out to be called racist (as you so kindly proved), my opinions are certaily not revolutionary, the have been expressed throught the free world.Originally posted by Lebowski
And you havent DARED to speak out against moslems, your just spittin out the same shit thats splashed accross the font pages of The Sun most days. Christ do you think that your opions are somehow new or revolutionary ! haha!
there is a big difference there firstly i have never had the jw beating up m kids, secondly i dont recall ever seeing the jw accusing everyone of being racist if people slam the door in their face & i couldnt care less about islam trying to expand its base of followers, i could however care a lot about those who follow that faith wanting to chip away at the fabric of the society in which i live, how many times have moslems gone to court to try to change something about the "british way of life"? i bet the sun reports them almost every day.Originally posted by Lebowski
As for your "told you so" point about islam trying to undermine our society.
Do you think islam is the only faith to try and spread its roots? I dont remember seeing your post about Jehovas Witness's trying to undermine our socitey and ive had plenty of them knocking on my door!
If it was a small local problem then it wouldnt be a problem, sadly that isnt true, its a problem wherever the followers of islam have large enough numbers to cause trouble, those of us from across the country who see it in our own areas know it to be true, sadly those who have yet to experience life in an islamic area dont yet know what trouble they are in for, they need to be warned so their eyes can be opened to the problems that are being caused by this group of people., you say i post this shit every fortnight or so, well i must admit, i do seem to be posting it more and more, maybe its because as every week goes by the islamists and their apologists keep giving me another reason to, perhaps if they stopped trying to turn my country into another copy of theirs (whichever one they want that to be) i wouldnt ned to keep saying these things, but since a free lifestyle as we have here seems to be incompatable with the islamic faith and its supporters i guess that i must continue trying to open peoples eyes to the threats they face from islam, a religon like no other i'm afraid.Originally posted by Lebowski
Why dont you just suffer whatever issues you have with moslems on your own instead of coming on here every fortnight and spouting more of your islam shit.
heree is something else for you to ponder, a quote from national review onlne (an american newspaper) i think it asks some good questions.
good points i thinkBy Victor Davis Hanson, author most recently of Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power.
March 15, 2002 8:35 a.m
One of the advantages of living in relative isolation on a farm is the opportunity to ponder idle questions when there are few experts around to give the proper answers. I list in no particular order a sampling of them that arose last night while I was walking alone through the orchard — on the chance that a few other puzzled Americans have also at times been just as exasperated and confused.
Why does Mr. Mubarak lecture us to become intimately engaged in the Middle East Peace process, when Mr. Clinton, who was very recently intimately engaged, got the intifada for his efforts?
And why does Mr. Mubarak seek to advise us about our proper diplomatic role, rather than explain to us why an Egyptian masterminded the deaths of 3,000 of our citizens and others of his countrymen are top lieutenants of Mr. Bin Laden and are now killing Americans in Afghanistan?
And why, instead of warning about rising anti-Americanism in his country — itself the dividend of the virulent propaganda of his own state-run presses — does he not ponder another recent poll, one showing that 76 percent of Americans themselves have an unfavorable view of the Arab world?
Because, unlike Egypt, we are a democracy, at some point will some brave American congressman ask the dreaded question, "Why continue to give billions to Egypt where three quarters of the people do not like us — and when three quarters of the American people would prefer not to?"
Why do Middle Easterners become excited and haughty as they gloat to you that Americans are unpopular in their countries, but suddenly grow shocked, silent, and hurt when you politely and calmly explain why the feeling is becoming — and perhaps should be — mutual?
Why do so many from the Middle East come here to find freedom, security, and safety — and then criticize the country that they would never leave as they praise the country that they would never return to?
Is there a word for profiling or irrationally hating Americans? Americanophobia? Misamericany?
Why did we incur only anger from Eastern Europeans and Orthodox Christians for saving the Muslims of the former Yugoslavia from Milosevic, but no praise at all from the Islamic world itself?
If the West Bank is the linchpin of the current Middle East crisis, what were wars #1, #2, and #3 there about, when it was entirely in Arab hands?
Is there a difference between Palestinians preferring to kill Israeli civilians rather than soldiers, and Israelis preferring to kill Palestinian fighters rather than civilians?
Why are the EU and international agencies vocal about well-fed and humanely treated prisoners in Cuba, and yet said nothing when depraved comrades of these detainees recently executed an American soldier upon capture in Afghanistan, and murdered Danny Pearl?
Would the world be angry if a Jewish terrorist forced a captured Muslim to admit to his race and faith as he executed and beheaded him on film?
Is it really true, as we were warned for most of January, that prayer-mats, lamb stew, Korans, and humane treatment in Cuba ensured that al Qaeda in turn would not execute captured Americans?
Why do not Iran, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq, who overtly and stealthily war along side the Palestinians, simply all join with the former to gang up and declare war openly on Israel and then settle the issue on the battlefield?
If we remove the fascist regime in Iraq and help institute consensual government there, why would we need troops any longer next door in Saudi Arabia? What and from whom would we then be there to protect?
If we could not have normal relations with the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, who both allowed neither freedom nor democracy, why and how can we maintain normal relations with the Islamic world?
If America forced Israel to give back every inch of the West Bank, if America withdrew all its troops from all Arab countries, if America increased its aid to Egypt, Palestine, and Jordan, if America sought to placate Saddam Hussein, remove all U.N. sanctions, and normalize relations with the Iraqi dictatorship, and if America sought to restore full relations with Iran without conditions, would the Muslim world really like the United States?
Has any American in any live broadcast on television ever asked a Saudi prince, the king of Jordan, the President of Egypt, or the royalty of Kuwait, whether they plan on allowing a free press or democratic government? If not, why not?
If 19 Americans incinerated 3,000 Muslims in Mecca or Medina, and blew up 20 acres in either of those cities with a two-kiloton explosion, would the Saudis or the Egyptians a few weeks later politely listen to admonitions from the American government about their incorrect Islamic policies in the Middle East?
If the Eiffel Tower had been wrecked by an al Qaeda hijacked airliner, would the French have gone into Afghanistan after the terrorists? And if so, how and why? And would they have asked our help? And would we have given it?
Why in the last decade have we seen a succession of Israeli prime ministers and opposition figures but only Mr. Arafat alone?
What would the world think if Mr. Sharon displayed a revolver and then attempted to strike one of his ministers at a Cabinet meeting?
Why do Palestinians shoot machine-guns up into the air at funerals and Israelis do not?
Why do supporters of Israel in America rarely castigate their country for giving money to Egypt, Jordan, and Mr. Arafat, while supporters of the Palestinian authority here always damn the United States for giving commensurate aid to Israel?
Why do Middle Easterners become far more enraged at Israelis for shooting hundreds of Muslims than at Iranians, Iraqis, Jordanians, Syrians, Indians, Algerians, Russians, Somalis, and Serbians for liquidating tens of thousands?
If nearly two-thirds of the Arabic world believe that Arabs were not involved in September 11, why should any American believe anything that two out of three people from that region say?
Will Palestinians cheer when Saddam Hussein launches chemical-laden missiles against Israel when we invade his country?
Why after half a century has the Saudi government suddenly now decided to enter the negotiations about Palestine?
If Iran launched missiles of mass destruction against Israel, would the EU do anything?
If North Korea attacked South Korea, would the EU do anything?
If someone blew up another 3,000 Americans, would the EU do anything?
Has anyone made an inventory of the all the goods, services, and equipment that France has sold to Iraq since 1991?
If Johnny Walker Lindh is not charged with betraying his country, what precisely does an American have to do to commit treason?
Has anyone heard a Muslim in the United States condemn September 11 without employing the word "but?"
Why do spokesmen for groups that have the words "ethical", "humane", "amnesty", "fair" and other such words of kindness appear so unkind in public interviews?
Why are most of the talking heads on television who are ex-military men direct, honest, polite, and rarely self-absorbed, while the academic pundits usually stutter, lose their cool, and say inane things "one could imagine…" and "as it were"?
How can training someone for four years to lead men into battle make one a more effective speaker and thinker than someone prepped for five years in graduate school to teach in the university and write?
Why do six billion people in the world conclude that the US military is the most deadly and effective armed force in the history of civilization when the American media who covers it does not?
How much annual income and time off does one have to garner to oppose automatically almost everything the United States has done since September 11?
I know that there are properly nuanced answers to these questions that touch on issues of pragmatism, national security, statecraft, requisite education, and other such abstract considerations. But millions of us Americans, I think, wonder about them nevertheless — and just maybe we are not so crazy after all.
Im not gonna keep going backwards and forwards with you on this one - I watched you do it on that thread where the muslim bloke tore the arse out of your arguement - yet you still thought you were right and still kept wittering on.
Perhaps the mods could set you up with your own section on the forum where you can post your views and people could pop in from time time and catch up with you and your crusade.
It isn't necessarily Moslem Vs Britain, it is UnBritishness Vs Britain.
Lets face it, wearing big robes, having long beards and belonging to an Islamic faith isn't a British thing. However much you all want to argue, traditionally, Britain is a Christian country. If any group of people come forward and threaten our (Britains) ideals, we must defend ourselves. That group just happen to be Moslem.
If Jehovas Witnesses bombed London bridge and killed everyone on it, I would feel badly against them too. If they were to then hold a rally in the middle of Manchester, that would be rubbing salt in the wound.
Can't you understand that?
"So right, so pure,
so hoodedclaw"
I dont feel threatened by moslems though ?
ABCMan does cos his kids fight with em and they cause car crime in his area (among other things) and this I understand - And this is an issue in alot of areas but ITS NOT muslem specific now is it?
@hoodedclaw - you hit the nail on the head. not necessarily a moslem thing but a "UnBritishness" thing you said.
And that is what all of this comes down to - Narrow minded people too set in their ways to cope with what other cultures and religions may bring to a society, the only thing that "Britishness" offers seems to be hostility to them.
Dont get me wrong I dissagree with sept 11 celebrations and asylum seekers getting houses faster than people that have been on waiting lists for years and who were born in this country - But I dont see it as a threat to Britain (just the poor way we run our benefits and Customs operations) and I certainly dont think they can be compared to Nazis's ?
I'm racist.
I think they should all **** off, I hate them.
I don't care.
Anyone who feels they have to post a reply slagging me off for being racist can also **** right off, I'm not going to read it and if there are any personal verbal attacks towards me for expressing MY opinions and views I'll ban them.
See how the boot fits on the other foot.
http://www.mav-aid.info<p><img src="http://members.cox.net/mclutz2/Flag.jpg">
Good point.
Well made.
This fukin scum that took to the streets of London yesterday are worse than Nazi's in my opinion, they don't just want to rid the world of Jews, they also want to rid the world of Christians, Buddists and every other religion on earth, plus homosexuals, atheists and agnostics.
I guess at a conservative estimate that around 5/6ths of the Worlds population, about 5 billion give or take, kinda makes the holocaust look like a duck shoot.
As I said in a previous post, when are ordinary white anglo-saxon britons gonna say 'enuff is enuff', we've been tolerant, we've accepted a multi-cultural society, hell, we've even accepted our taxes being spend on minority schools and f**k knows what else to appease these people. But we've had enuff, we ain't taking it up the arse anymore, we're gonna take back our society, we're gonna take back the taxes we spend on minority projects and spend it on our childrens education, we're gonna take back the ghetto's of Bradford, Oldham and countless other towns and cities. And finally when are we gonna insist that the non-white, non-christian sections of the population either embrace our way of life or they ship out, its that simple.
"we're gonna take back our society, we're gonna take back the taxes we spend on minority projects and spend it on our childrens education, we're gonna take back the ghetto's of Bradford, Oldham and countless other towns and cities. And finally when are we gonna insist that the non-white, non-christian sections of the population either embrace our way of life or they ship out, its that simple. "
And your gonna do this from your PC keyboard right ?
Nope your gonna do jack-shit! and just moan, cos thats all you lot do isnt it!
You are spot on m8, apathy will kill this country, it's traditions, it's soceity and **** knows what else. But don't count us out yet m8, I feel the ordinary white briton is on the verge of something that is gonna shake the foundations of our society, and action is underway, from this very keyboard. The depth of feeling is growing ever deeper and when the day comes m8, you better know what side your on cos blood is gonna get spilled.Originally posted by Lebowski
[BNope your gonna do jack-shit! and just moan, cos thats all you lot do isnt it! [/B]
Up the revolution!
"No you woooon't fool, the children of the revolution, naaanaaaanaaaaaaaaaaaa"
Marc Bolan.
http://www.mav-aid.info<p><img src="http://members.cox.net/mclutz2/Flag.jpg">
I see the Muslims as having the same problems as us Born and Bred Christian/Catholic British..they have their extremists we have ours..Nearly all the muslims i know are hard working and honest and just wanna get on with thier lives,But the islamic extremists play the guilt card knowing that Islam is a strict and devout religion and when they call thier "brothers" to arms all the shopkeepers and ordinary muslims and stuck between a rock and a hard place,obay thier leaders,or face being thrown out of their communities.....just remember most ordinary muslims,are in this country because of the oppression they faced in their own Islamic state countries....they want peace and freedom as well as us..
"God is a comedian, playing to an audience who are too afraid to laugh...."
here is something else for the moslems and their apologists to think about
I'm guessing but maybe, just maybe this problem i have with the local moslems isn't quite as local as some like to try to have everyone believe, oh and did i say my kids were fighting the local moslems? i said they kept getting attacked by them 8 to 30 onto one isnt a fight its a premeditated assault and its not just my kids, its ANY non moslem kids, and its not just my area, its ANY area the moslems have enough numbers to cause this trouble, from the above quote it would certainly appear that it applies throught the world wherever there are enough moslems together.August 2, 2002, 8:45 a.m.
At the dawn of the new millennium, the world is being confronted with an absolute culture of hate, characterized by paroxysms of international terrorism against civilians, and religious intolerance. This culture of hate has multiple heads from Algeria to Afghanistan, to Indonesia, via Gaza and the West Bank, Damascus, Cairo, Khartoum, Teheran, and Karachi. It scatters the seeds of terrorism from one end of the earth to the other.
This hate, which suppresses freedom of thought, and condemns difference, calls itself "Islamic jihad." It draws on religious texts whose interpretation other Muslims dispute. Moreover, because these moderate Muslims challenge this interpretation of Islam, wishing to live in peace with the non-Muslim peoples and nations of the world, their lives are threatened. There is constant bloodshed in Algeria. Islam is disseminating death and terror in Israel. In Southern Sudan, Islam has caused the death of some two million people, generated an even larger number of refugees, lead to the enslavement of tens of thousands, and produced deadly famines.
In Indonesia, some 200,000 deaths resulted from Islamic violence in East Timor. Christians have been pursued, and massacred, and their churches burned down by Moslems in the Moluccas and other Indonesian islands. The death toll in these violent attacks is over 10,000, while an additional 8,000 Christians have been forcibly converted to Islam, including many of whom were forcibly circumcised. Atrocities are also being committed by Moslems in both the Philippines, and some northern Nigerian states. Hundreds of innocent people died when Moslems struck at the Jewish Community Center of Buenos Aires in Argentina, and the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. In Egypt, Moslems have massacred Copts in their churches and villages, and murdered European tourists. Christians in Pakistan and in Iran live in terror of accusations of blasphemy, which, if "proven," can yield a death sentence. And a cataclysmic act of Moslem terror resulted in the slaughter of nearly 3,000 innocent civilians of multiple faiths and nationalities in New York, on September 11, 2001. None of these victims were guilty of any crime. They were murdered and mutilated out of hate for things um-Islamic.
Andrew G. Bostom, M.D., associate professor of medicine at Brown University Medical School contributed to this essay.
Yet again i'm sure there are those who will stand up for this trash, but it seems that professionals and respected authors the world over have the same opinions as both myself, the sun newspaper (aparently) and thousands of others.
ABCMan
Most of the countries Mr Hanson mentioned in his following text are probably not known to 90% of Americans let alone as to which continent they are on !By Victor Davis Hanson, author most recently of Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power.
March 15, 2002 8:35 a.m
One of the advantages of living in relative isolation on a farm is the opportunity to ponder idle questions when there are few experts around to give the proper answers. I list in no particular order a sampling of them that arose last night while I was walking alone through the orchard — on the chance that a few other puzzled Americans have also at times been just as exasperated and confused.
But about 75% of the countries he deems as un-american have probably been covertly de-stabalised or have had puppet regeims
proped up by the US by way of the CIA.
A classic case of US meddling via the CIAIn Indonesia, some 200,000 deaths resulted from Islamic violence in East Timor.
And Mr Hanson walks round his orchard wondering why these countries dont like the US !:rolls:
but if it wasnt for the usa and other nominaly christian countries in the west half of the above named countries would have imploded uner the weight of their own violence do you honestly believe its 2 pakistani bombs that keep india from wiping pakistan off the map? or a few arab suicide murderers that prevents isreal from permenently resolving the middle east problem? I think you will find that the real world (including all non islamic countries) that keep the lid on things.
ABCMan - I think Dr Bostom's article helps your arguments only in the respect that it shows that along with other religions Islam has it's fair share of f*ckwits.
Christianity has a long history of violence against other religions similar to the events outlined above - the crusades, the spanish inquisition, Hitlers view of 'positive christianity' through to more modern events the slaughter of women and children by Christian militias in Lebanon and the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. Prior to 9/11 the biggest single act of terrorism on American soil was the Oklahoma bombing - the killing of innocent men women and children by a born again Christian. Also let's not forget we Christians have persecuted Jews for so long in this country we even have a special word for it - anti semitism
Hindu extremists predominantly target muslims but not exclusively Christians, Jews and Sikhs are also regularly attacked.
In addition to Dr Bostom's article there areas such as Kashmir where the non muslim population has either been killed or been forced to move. Also in Iran since there revolution the Jewish community has been either converted, killed or forced out. He also leaves out the ethnic cleansing in Chechnya again undertaken by militant muslims.
Last edited by digidump; 26th August 2002 at 05:58 PM.
All true, but does that make it right?Originally posted by digidump
Christianity has a long history of violence against other religions similar to the events outlined above - the crusades, the spanish inquisition, Hitlers view of 'positive christianity' through to more modern events the slaughter of women and children by Christian militias in Lebanon and the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. Prior to 9/11 the biggest single act of terrorism on American soil was the Oklahoma bombing - the killing of innocent men women and children by a born again Christian. Also let's not forget we Christians have persecuted Jews for so long in this country we even have a special word for it - anti semitism
Hindu extremists predominantly target muslims but not exclusively Christians, Jews and Sikhs are also regularly attacked.
In addition to Dr Bostom's article there areas such as Kashmir where the non muslim population has either been killed or been forced to move. Also in Iran since there revolution the Jewish community has been either converted, killed or forced out. He also leaves out the ethnic cleansing in Chechnya again undertaken by militant muslims.
No.
It should not be tolerated here. It is not tolerated where these people originate. If I try and recruit Arabs into Christianity, I would get a hiding.
The examples you used were from a long time ago. Lessons are supposed to have been learned since then.
At the end of the day, if you are told every day that you hate Christians/Americans/Jews, then in the end, you do. Their society is so focused on this, it must be hard not to have this outlook. Look at England, 80% of the people you meet will have a problem of some sort with homosexuals.
How many of them have been the subject of a homosexual rape or even homosexual advances? Not many I would say,
The reason for their prejudice is through upbringing. We are taught to be anti-gay; and we (for the most part) are.
That is the reason for the current Moslem Vs Other Religion situation. The problem has to be addressed at home. To stop this from carrying on, Moslems need to be as understanding of us as they want us to be of them.
At the end of the day, it is (as usual) all about money. America is hated because of its financial superiority and the power it has because of this. Israel was "created" so America could have a foothold in the Middle East. Iraq was invaded to secure Americas oil supply.
I know some people will disagree with me here, but the average American/Brit/Moslem did not create this. It is created by peoples couldn't care less attitudes.
Why are we (as in America and Britain) living in such wealth compared to countries where people are eating grass and barely living? Greed.
It all comes down to every persons greed. All people are greedy; its in our nature. If the Middle East wasn't the source for most of the worlds oil supply, I have no doubts that America would have completely eradicated its problem by now.
It is only when you look at the people involved. Your average Afghan farming what little land he has, or a fresh-faced 18 year old American soldier going to Iraq, that you get the fuller picture. These people; Bush, Blair, Bin Laden (all B's! There's a conspiracy theory right there!) are so far removed from your average person, that they are in no position to be controlling things like this.
We need new leaders...
Last edited by hoodedclaw; 26th August 2002 at 07:18 PM.
"So right, so pure,
so hoodedclaw"
lo
im racist - i wish someone would have blown the ****ers up while on their march - see how they feel like it
we are all racist in some sort of way - not everyone will admit it tho.
A wise man once said " "
In reply to questions raised by By Victor Davis Hanson, author most recently of Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power
Because the US will make $billions out of the petro chemical products it will refine?"Why continue to give billions to Egypt where three quarters of the people do not like us — and when three quarters of the American people would prefer not to?"
You see the US isn't exactly "giving"money away!It is putting money into an economy in the sure knowledge that it will make a profit,fair enough but dont call it a donation.
Even the US humanitarian investment in Eygypt is not quite as first seen.Indeed the US has put money into hospital building , but not for the benifit of the needy.The hospitals are private ones
where you have to be able to afford private health insurance(premium collected by US Corp rep)
Short answer- it keeps US companys and share holders happy.
For such a loaded question to come from a so called educated man defies belief !Is there a difference between Palestinians preferring to kill Israeli civilians rather than soldiers, and Israelis preferring to kill Palestinian fighters rather than civilians?
Hasn't MR Hanson ever heard of Sabra and Shatila,
and why did the US remove Mary Robinson as commisioner for human rights when they didn't like what she said ?Something to do with freedom of speech I expect
Wasn't it more a case of US crack troops leaving him behind ?recently executed an American soldier upon capture in Afghanistan
The US doesn't have any qualms about China though does it ?If we could not have normal relations with the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, who both allowed neither freedom nor democracy, why and how can we maintain normal relations with the Islamic world?
Neither freedom or democracy but a BIG export market !!!
Probably because the US would give the go ahead for Israel to launch a nuclear attack on them.Why do not Iran, Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq, who overtly and stealthily war along side the Palestinians, simply all join with the former to gang up and declare war openly on Israel and then settle the issue on the battlefield?
I seem to remember the US supporting Iraq and its fascist regimeIf we remove the fascist regime in Iraq and help institute consensual government there, why would we need troops any longer next door in Saudi Arabia? What and from whom would we then be there to protect?
during the Iran\Iraq war ,how inconveinient !
The US would need troiops to protect its own interests (OIL) through its support of another undemocratic country Saudi Arabia.
Because the US needs their oil,if they have oil don't "rock the boat"Has any American in any live broadcast on television ever asked a Saudi prince, the king of Jordan, the President of Egypt, or the royalty of Kuwait, whether they plan on allowing a free press or democratic government? If not, why not?
Because the media remember VIETNAM !Why do six billion people in the world conclude that the US military is the most deadly and effective armed force in the history of civilization when the American media who covers it does not?
No you're not crazy.......just fcuking stupidI know that there are properly nuanced answers to these questions that touch on issues of pragmatism, national security, statecraft, requisite education, and other such abstract considerations. But millions of us Americans, I think, wonder about them nevertheless — and just maybe we are not so crazy after all.
Zydig0
Last edited by Zydig0; 26th August 2002 at 08:52 PM.
Israel resolve the "problems" in the middle east ?.....I was under the impression they were the cause of the "problem"Originally posted by ABCMan
or a few arab suicide murderers that prevents isreal from permenently resolving the middle east problem? I think you will find that the real world (including all non islamic countries) that keep the lid on things.
As for keeping the "lid on things" I think the western world can sleep soundly in its bed in the knowledge that we have ONLY been involved in 2 world wars in living memory
BTW@ ABCMan hope you had a good holiday
Zydig0
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