Thinking of buying a Boxster??

**psxman** · 12th September 2002

Read this first:

www.badboxster.com

**Morph** · 12th September 2002

Well I wasnt a big Porsche fan anyway, but definitley not one now !!!

talk about sh1t customer support!

**_Belial** · 12th September 2002

That's seriously taking the piss m8 that just 27 days out of warranty they want that kind of cash from you. I'd get your car taken to bits and have it delivered on porsche uk's office steps and sit on top of it until they do something, that's just plain scandalous considering how much you paid for the car.

Hope you sort something out fella.

**Hybrid** · 12th September 2002

I doubt any other high end car manufacturer would have done anything more. Bad luck I'm sure it is, but all the same, you buy a used car, you buy it's history too and even though it DID have a full Porsche service history, which means it was serviced by a qualified dealer at regular intervals, it doesn't however mean that it was driven well. I reckon if I was in his place I'd be pig sick but eventualy realise any help offered or given from Porsche would have been a goodwill gesture BUT, having said that, a goodwill gesture is EXACTLY what I would have expected from a company like Porsche that rely on reputation to sell cars. I reckon he's doing the only thing he can, which is to gather info about how common the fault really is and present it to Porsche in the hope they realise they can't hide from it and pretend it's not a problem. What I want to know is why the hell did he buy a used car in that price range without an iron clad waranty? Who says he is telling the truth anyway? We are always too happy to believe every bad story about large companies letting customers down. At the end of the day Porsche never even sold him the car, Porsche gave him NO waranty, no promises and made no revenue from the sale of that car to him, so............. Surely the previous owner is far more at fault than anyone else since he WAS the person responsible for selling him the car that developed the fault? I see no mention of the previous owner or indeed where he bought it, apart from a "private" sale, which had nothing to do with Porsche at all. Fair enough if the problem turns out to be a fault on the part of Porsche, but the fact remains we are only hearing one side of the story and therefore cannot possibly make a fair judgement, but still we assume the giant is at fault and the little guy can do no wrong? Porsche didn't get the reputation they have today by p!ssing on their customers, so........why start now? There is a reason for EVEY mechanical failure of ANY sort, and the same applies to this one. I'd have an independant garage strip the engine and determine the cause of the failure then present his findings to Porsche, IF indeed the fault IS deemed to be mechanical failure due to design, manufacturing or inherrant weakness. Until that's done there is no proof that Porsche are any more to blame than anyone that ever owned or drove the car. He complains at being refused assistance because he was 27 days over the time Porsche offer finacial help, 5 years! How many other manufacturers would offer such assistance at all, let alone for so long? when the recognised healthy lifetime of a new car before it is likely to need mechanical work done to it is but 3 years? which is when the first MOT is due. Everyone needs someone or something to blame when things go wrong, but that don't mean there IS someone or something to blame, other than missfortune, until you can prove otherwise. I see nothing there about the fault, no description of either IT, or the cause of it, no engineers statement of any sort that vindicates either party, "Intermediate shaft" is the only reference to the part that failed which tells me nothing at all, not a damn thing. What drives the shaft? what is it's purpose? where is it located? what does it drive? what COULD have caused it to fail? How can anyone guess who's to blame without even knowing what failed or why? I've owned Porsche's, drove them, serviced them, re built engines, gearboxes and transaxles on various models. Thats why I still drive one today, I have never worked on ANY car that comes close to the build quality and strength that IS Porsche. When the Vauxhall Cavalier MkII came out mechanics raved about the great NEW cassette clutch design that made changing a clutch kit a 30 minute job! Porsche designed a far simpler version and introduced it in 1977, but never shouted about it, why? they didn't do it as a selling point, they did it because it made the replacement of another servicable part quick and easy. A Porsche engine is an engineering masterpiece, whatever the type, water cooled, air cooled, flat 6, V8, whatever. The 924s 944 928 engines are built from alloy, top to bottom INCLUDING the bores! Which means those pistons with hardened steel piston rings move up and down against that alloy bore at high speed even on tickover BUT still they see mileage in excess of 150 to 200 thousand miles, why? because Porsche designed and implemented an alloy that, in laymans terms is impregnated with silicon to reduce friction and resistance to a bare minimum and allow a much much harder substance to move against it without causing damage to the softer metal. Those 2 things are the representative of the engineering genius that is built into every car they produce. But..... I do concede that even a genius MUST get it wrong sometimes, my point is that, Porsche have proven their worth, proven they know how to engineer, what evidence does this man offer in defence of his claim? Nothing, he doesn't even know what the failed part does or even resides within the engine. He just assumes the manufacturer should bail him out DESPITE the fact the car is over 5yo and COULD have been subject to abuse ALL or SOME of it's life and he'll never know.

**psxman** · 13th September 2002

A very interesting and detailed response.

Maybe I am wrong, but your story appears to be written as a Porsche employee and not a Porsche owner.

Firstly, you are correct, nobody forced me to buy the car. My point was that Porsche from the start showed little enthusiasm to actually sell me a car despite several phone calls to the main dealer. The comment this week from their sales manager was that because I only had 25,000 GBP to spend that they may not have been able to locate a car. This was pure bullshits as I had seen many 97/98 Boxsters advertised by them in this price region and I explained that a return phone call would have been nice. My guess is that they were busy selling Carrera 4, GT2s etc. and my enquiry was not interesting.

The car I bought privately was inspected and was HPI checked. Do you really think that any engineer can predict an early engine failure when the car drove and sounded perfectly normal?
I believe that I spent my money carefully and any failures with no warranty would have been less drastic and certainly less costly i.e. a clutch was due later this year at 800GBP, something I could easily accept as wear an tear on the car.

I have discussed the failure of my Boxster engine with several Porsche owners who too have suffered the same problem. The consensus of opinion is that Porsche have/had a weakness in the design of this engine.

Whether or not Porsche directly sold the car to me is immaterial. Porsche manufactured the car and then serviced/inspected it every 10000 miles. They make claims about being superior in design, well I am afraid my friend that many Boxster owners would have seen more mileage form a Vauxhall Corsa, Ford Fiesta...need I go on??

Porsche do not stand by their products. This is clear again with a Porsche 968 premature gearbox pinion failure. See a letter to Porsche CEO and more details at:

http://members.rennlist.org/martin/

Whilst the premature failure of boxters engines itself is unacceptable, my biggest argument is with Porsche and their after sales service. Yes, my car is outside of a 2 year warranty but Porsche UK HQ clearly explained that they have discretion up to 5 years to provide financial assistance for cars failing early...but I was 27 days too late, this is a little antagonizing.

MY letter & faxes to Mr. Zemma, Head of Customer services in Germany have gone unanswered. I plan to attempt to call him today to express my dismay and advise of the bad publicity his company is getting. Are any other car companies allowed to completely ignore their customer base....I THINK NOT!

I was expecting Porsche to offer to pay for parts OR labour as a goodwill gesture considering I clearly explained I wished to stay with their brand and would commit to enlisting for a 2003 model Boxster. Having spoken to several U.S. owners of Porsche who have had major premature car failures, Porsche USA have paid for both parts and labour as act of goodwill in those cases!!

Look....I don't really have the time for all this letter writing, phone calls, websites and complaining but I simply refuse to be swept under the carpet. Believe this, they will listen to me at some point in the near future. As I gather evidence and stories of this premature engine failure caused by the breakdown of an 'intermediate shaft' I will continue to write to all trading bodies, car magazines, press, and Porsche clubs around the world.

You are entitled to your opinion of Porsche and I of mine.

PORSCHE MUST TAKE THIR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND AND LISTEN TO EXISTING OWNERS WHO ARE THE LIFEBLOOD OF ITS BUSINESS.

**WTD** · 13th September 2002

You got to understand that they support the workmanship of a car and th quality of its parts for a finite time only (5 years). It would be unreasonable and unfair of them to fix your car, as what about all the other people who had cars that broke just after the 5 years. Would porsche contact all of them, and make ammends.

Sorry, but i think you will get no-where with this one matey, as 5 years is the time limit and you are out of it.. Sickeningly close as you are to being under 5 years your over, so they won't help.

If your fully comp I beleive that you can claim for things like this though, so that might be the better option...
Check with your insurance company.

**psxman** · 13th September 2002

I understand where you are coming from. My biggest problems is that Porsche Germany cannot even manage a reponse to explain why their engines last a mere 55,000.

Years are irrelevant. Other Porsche owners i.e 968 campaigned for a minimum 80000 miles from a Porsche gearbox.

For you info, many other owners have suffered the same engine failures after less than 5,000 miles! This clearly is a problem to be faced by many owners of Boxsters, particularly as warranties expire.

To tell me I was 27 days to late for any help was worse than not telling me at all. Its just like they are giving two fingers to me.

Will check the insurance policy tonight.

**urbsy** · 13th September 2002

We have a Boxster on our fleet , its the worst Porsche i have ever driven , its not even fast for fecks sake !

Urban

**Hybrid** · 13th September 2002

My view was written as a mechanic AND the owner of SEVERAL Porsche's, NOT as an employee, but the fact you so easily assume I COULD be only reinforces MY arguement, which is that Porsche OVERALL are superior car manufacturers who earned their reputation because they deserve it. My opinion is based on several things which include owning, repairing, servicing and indeed driving them. Your opinion is based on what can only be deemed as ONE bad experience. If you take one step back from your situation and try seeing it through unbiased eyes I'm sure you'll see the situation from a different view. YES, the engine should last for a LOT more miles, no argument there, BUT, no one promised you it would! Including Porsche. mybe if you had done your homework BEFORE buying the car you wouldn't be in this mess. But, hey! I sound like I'm pissin on yer chips, I'm not, I'm giving you the argument that they surely will, which hopefully might prepare you for the battle you will surely have. I'll help in any way I can, why? because I'd rather NOT see YOU lose out on what SHOULD have been an excellent driving experience.
Now......the fact remains you bought a car with no warranty given or implied, from a private dealer, right? But..... Like you said, no one could forsee an internal mechanical failure was about to happen when there were no visible or audible signs of it, or were there? I mean, WHO checked the car out? The AA? I would hope not! they couldn't fit a description never mind know one end of a Porsche from the other. An independant mechanic\technician ? Who generally works on which brand of car? Not Porsche I assume, seeing he would surely have pointed or hinted at the problems you say are related to this car. If your not familiar with engines and how they SHOULD sound, it is damn near impossible to pick out a normal noise from a bad noise, which is where I'm leading. A Porsche mechanic is VERY familiar with most every model and therefore will identify correctly ANY noise that shouldn't be there. The AA etc will charge you for them to look over it and see NOTHING that isn't staring them in the face and then, give you a receipt that denies resposibility for EVERYTHING you just paid them to assess, which, is hardly a recomendation for their services. Anyway.............that's all besides the point and not changeable. What have you actually done to promote your cause? Which bodies have you contacted about it? I'm not familiar with English law, but here in Scotland my FIRST port of call would be the Consumer Advice and Trading standards, who are pretty damn good at giving you a voice. I'm not here to rub salt in your wound or scoff at your sh!t luck. I'm here to help. Where is the car now? Who determined the cause of the breakdown? Have you had an estimate from a non Porsche garage? What exactly IS the damage to the engine and what parts are neccisary to effect a repair? I know your not ready to accept the loss, but have you priced a replacement yet ? http://www.douglasvalley.co.uk/ are breakers who only deal with top marques and are usually OK to deal with. www.findapart.co.uk is pretty damn good a sourcing parts. http://www.porsch-apart.co.uk/home.cfm http://www.tipec.org.uk/
http://www.porscheshop.co.uk

Are a mixture of spares\repairs\forums and contacts that may be useful to you. If I were in your position and happy to stick it out till the last round, I'd be getting more specific about the fault, the damage it caused and get to work on proving the fault is due to inherrant weakness in design or manufacture. My first stop would be to price the part that failed AND get the part number for YOUR EXACT model, then ask if the part number changed in a later model, which may signify a modification to that part and could infer that Porsche are aware of the problem and have took steps to avoid it in later models. You need an argument much stronger than the one you've put forward here, you need to prove Porsche made a mistake and the only way you will do that is by working on a list of names of other owners with the same problem, or proving that Porsche have changed the part in later models. Being noticed is one thing, but shouting from every forum and dissing their product will get you no where. Get someone to give you a voice and make your argument heard, but keep that arguement clear, calm and persistant. Good luck.

**Hybrid** · 13th September 2002

Originally posted by urbanmiffs
We have a Boxster on our fleet , its the worst Porsche i have ever driven , its not even fast for fecks sake !

Urban

I have to say I see no attraction to either the look or the spec of the car and have always regarded it as Porsche's attemp to get into a lower price bracket to make the model more attainable, at the cost of the standard you would expect from the marque.

**urbsy** · 13th September 2002

So true m8 , the 911 is an old 1994 model on an 'L' but is a superb motor . It drives and handles brilliantly , and except for services , it has never needed any attention whatsoever , its one of the most popular cars we have .

Urban

**knee doc** · 14th September 2002

Sorry but i just wanted to stick my oar in too, i'm not defending Porsche, but they have a point.

If the car was 10 years old and 55,000 miles would you want Porsche to fix it free, of course not, if it was a Ford Fiesta would you expect it to be fixed free, i think not.

If you buy a car privately with no warranty, what do you expect, warranties aren't very expensive even if you took one out privately. And you say you missed out by 27 days, it may as well be 27 years it makes no difference you have to have a limit somewhere, otherwise people (like yourself) would be forever trying to push that bit extra.
Personally if i had that money to spend on a Porsche i would opt. for a mint 968, and go on a bitchin' holiday, or else get a nice 993 bodied 911.

Just my opinion

**tbops** · 14th September 2002

I got a boxter had it since brand new. its a class car, i drive it more then my DB7 or my 550. its an R reg and has about 35 k miles loverly peice of kit. i have had it parked in a garage for the past 12 months (lyin low) whats the best way of startin it, as the batt died and the bonnets locked, i was told that when u use a car lighter batt charger u are likely to blow the dash electronic components. any ideas?