What is the best way to identify what is causing a PC to hang

[Over Carl]

I may be wrong - I would do some digging - but I reckon that sticker won't mean shit, otherwise they have sold you a product unfit for purpose - what's the point having a pc with a cpu in a socket, not soldered, spare sockets for ram, as well as pci/pcie slots and drive interfaces/bays if you aren't allowed to even look at them?

[TotallyRandom]

as said by WRATH OF BOD download hirens boot cd any version.8 to 10

this will have MemTest on it
Boot too CD find memtest86

Run it several times over night,
if you get a crash or any errors it needs replaced.

you also said you got it to crash on your diags what ones/test did it fail on?

[gandalf72]

I downloaded a similar disk think it was running a stress test from memory (my memory not pc memory) when it crashed and I could get it to do it numerous times.

I have downloaded the disk mentioned. It has mem test X86 and mem test 1 or something like that on it. I was asking for instructions on how to use it setting wise as last diags I done with disk it did not say where it put log if it created a log.

I cant use the disk though till saturday as I am downloading some stuff at moment and that is its eta. I will run it over night on Saturday and Sunday will let you know the results of that. If it survives.

If there is anything else you or anyone else can think of though that I can do diagnostic wise with out a reboot of pc let me know and I will gladly do it.

Just to highlight that it passed windows memory check - I set the advanced option up on that to do I think it was 15 passes and it produced no errors. Saturday night or whenever those downloads finish though will deffo do the memtest86.


Thanks again for help it is appreciated.

[gandalf72]

I found the details of the program that I was using last time I tried.

Retestrak's Ultimate Bootable Rescue Toolkit v0.1 ( March 2009 ) and from there used a program called PC check and selected the test to run for 1 hour and it resulted in the PC hanging

I am not able to use the other disk yet and try the memtest for another 16 hours all being well. I will update with any result as soon as it either fails or passes.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

[TotallyRandom]

Purpose

The Dell Crash Analysis Tool helps determine the cause of Windows driver-related issues.
Description

The Crash Analysis Tool scans the computer to detect driver or drivers that may be the cause of driver-related issues, such as Stop error messages on a blue screen and system crash error messages. If you receive a Stop error message or a system crash error message, the Crash Analysis Tool can help identify the driver or the drivers that may be the cause of the issue.
Download this diagnostic tool.

let me know the results

Also download and run the DellAnalyse program send me back the XML file will have a look.
password for the file is dell

Sounds like one of your ram sticks are gone tho

[Possy_99]

I can't believe this thread has gone on so long, at the end of the day if you have tried formatting and still have problems then surely it has to be a hardware issue - in which case you'd continue to slug it out with the shop where you bought it..

I have yet to come accross a driver/software problem that can't be fixed with a good 'ol format.. examining stop/blue screen errors etc isn't going to go anywhere as according to the OP the computer is not exhibiting any of those symptoms..

so yeah, maybe you can spend hour after hour doing this check, checking that.. but at the end of the day in this case all you need to do is determine if this is infact a hardware issue as you have a warranty which covers everything as one complete (and working) unit.. it would be different if you bought the parts seperate and you specifically needed to identify which one.. but fook em.. it's the shops problem and the shop's job to find out which part is buggered..

[gandalf72]

Possy,

The pc went to the repair place to get fixed back in December. They were going to return it to me unrepaired claiming they could not identify a fault. Since Having the machine returned the second time (first time they smashed it / courier smashed it) it has constantly crashed at least twice a week and often more.

My take is there engineers do a bare minimum of checks and if it does not show up on their software they wont do anything else.

I was told they checked and passed their tests. They would only say they checked memory and PSU but not tell me specific checks. Please remember this company passed a chassis that was smashed in pieces with front plastic damage side chassis plastic missing and buckled side casing as passing their quality tests.

If I for one second believed that I could just return system to them in london (I am in glasgow) and they would fix without me crossing all the T's and dotting I;s in troubleshooting I would without a doubt.

Problem I have is they say they will charge me if they cant find issue. Now I have the stability logs that prove system is shutting down incorrectly but there is nothing else I have as proof and as I am a student cant afford the charge plus carriage they would charge me.

Cheers Totally Random will download that and upload the results.

Thanks for all help it is appreciated - Trust me I am extremely frustrated by all this. Just trying my best not to come accross too bad on here.

[ant3b]

Hairdryer the sticker if you can.. and take it off carefully then sort it yourself..

[Possy_99]

personally I'd get in touch with consumer direct or some other consumer advice place.. try sending the company you bought it from one of the template letters from consumer direct.. see what they (consumer direct) say about the evidence you currently have, to see if it is strong enough to argue your particular case..

[DejaVu]

pc still underwarranty

Means it's not your problem, it's the manufacturer's.

Dont even bother to repair it. You could lead yourself up all the wrong paths just to find out the motherboard is borked.

If they damaged it in their possession you should have denied delivery and demanded a replacement.

Let the people where you got it sort it out. They CANNOT charge you for a repair if it's still within the first year. Plus, they should, if they are a reputable company, pay for all carriage charges.

If they don't, warn them you will write to the London Metro (Free daily newspaper in London read by thousands) or the national press as well as Watchdog/Consumer Rights.

Explore all avenues, if they are not going to comply I'm sure someone on here will be willing to help a fellow VIP'er with it visit to you in Glasgow!

I may be wrong - I would do some digging - but I reckon that sticker won't mean shit, otherwise they have sold you a product unfit for purpose - what's the point having a pc with a cpu in a socket, not soldered, spare sockets for ram, as well as pci/pcie slots and drive interfaces/bays if you aren't allowed to even look at them?

This is also very true. You CAN open your PC and upgrade it these days WITHOUT voiding your warranty. Large companies like Acer, HP, Samsung and Toshiba will not penalise you for opening up your PC or Laptop. Hence the reason the Warranty Sticker on the outer shell has been removed on their machines. With it on there, simple upgrades had to go through them and they couldnt keep up with demand!

If the company has put a Warranty Sticker on the PC - DONT REMOVE IT. They are advertising you HAVE A YEARS WARRANTY!

USE IT!

[gandalf72]

Thanks for all replies,

Totally Random - the system snapshot is stuck and has been stuck for past hours with a thumbsnails width to go before it completes. The crash tool - downloaded and run and it came up saying that no matches found. How long should the other tool take it has been stuck at same bit for just over hour (6:21pm). If this changes I will post to say but other than that assume it is stuck on this window. I will leave it in that position till 10am tomorrow morning. It may be that due to me downloading that it is still working away.

DejaVu - Thanks this company have in their terms and conditions you have to pay for carriage both ways after 3 months. I was not aware of this when I purchased system (my fualt not checking T&C - they say on same T&C if they cant find fault they will charge - this causes issue for intermitant problems).

Annoying thing with this issue is there is no pattern. The system can be left on for days 24 hours and not hang and other times it will hang twice a day or once a day and same next day. There does not seem to be any inconsistancy with this. - Example - I have had the computer downloading for past 24 hours, ran hard disk sentinal short test and long test, snapshot tool from dell and the system snapshot and its still standing tall. other days I can just have the net on and it hangs. Previous 3 days - Hung once a day for past 2 days and think 3 days hung twice on one day with no downloads and just net and music (itunes) or vlc player on with firefox.

If it hung every day of the week or if it done it on a pattern brilliant in a way but this issue has a mind of its own. hang on a Tuesday then not hang again for 4 days then hang the day after.

The ironic thing is it does not even tie in with programs being installed.

Possy - I had to get trading standards involved at one point as Mesh were not responding to my requests for help - This has been another reason why I have tried to do these diags.

After contact from Trading standard they agreed to pick up the system to replace the case as a matter of goodwill. All they done as said earlier was superglue parts on and replace hood of chasis and ignored a 2.5 inch whole on the side of the chassis and buckled casing and to do that they kept the system for about 3 weeks all in!

[DejaVu]

What does your Event Viewer log say (exactly) when it crashes.

Find one of the Recovery from unexpected shutdown and post all the details. Also post stuff that happened 20 minutes before hand.

If you use Live Messenger, I can remote logon and take a look if you like...

[SHOWTOGROUPS="80"]Add me -
leonsmy@googlemail.com[/SHOWTOGROUPS]
The clue does live in there, it's just knowing the exact time something causes an error.

[gandalf72]

Thanks for that. I have just sent you an invite sent and advised you on pm of details. If you have not got an invite can you try sending me one with the email addy I gave you in pm please.

Thanks once again for your help it is much appreciated.

[gandalf72]

Totaly Random - It would appear that the dell snapshot app appears to have crashed. I will re run it tomorrow am when I wake up and post the result.

Any idea length of time it should run under normal circumstances?

Cheers

[TotallyRandom]

it only take 30 seconds, come to think of it might not work with windows 7
It would have taken a snap shot of the event viewer ect so i could have had a look like DejaVu said can sometime show what caused it.

what did the crash tool say?

I also work in Glasgow could sort something out if you wanted, got hirens boot cd here also got a PSU tester and loads more goodies i could load in to the car

but best bet is run Memtest86 several times over night then take a Photo if it fails (to send them)

[gandalf72]

Totally Random - Many thanks for the kind offer. Will let you know the outcome of things once Deja Vu has had a look.

Current state of play is that I thought I had Hirens CD but when I went to check it and burn it Norton flagged up Suspicious.Emmet as being on their when I mounted the disk and scanned a bit further it picked up more instances of that and another malware / spyware item.

Crash tool said "no matches found"

I found the direct link to hiren and am just going to try and download it now.

[DejaVu]

Through further investigation the Crash Dumps are not being created which to me implies a hardware fault.

I'm suspecting the PSU at the moment, but in all fairness I'm not certain. I've turned Automatic Rebooting on System Failure off and hopefully it will generate one.

The reason I suspect is because the Kernel-Power is at fault and it seems to be erratic. The Event Veiwer is explaining that the Critical Error is the disk controller, all drivers are uptodate. I'm wondering if the PSU is using most of it's power towards the CPU and when it spikes and the Disk controller kicks in to transfer files (after a download) and the PSU cant cope.

Considering it's quite a high end system (Gaming spec) it's running with a 550W. Mine is a Dual Core system, not as high a spec with a 750W PSU. But this is only a theory.

Anymore input or things to try appreciated.

Resource Monitor is being watched too just incase of any anomalies.
Googling the Event ID's doesnt really bring any substantial results apart from a suspect PSU.

I'm not willing to blame the PSU yet as it could still be something else entirely. That said, the system copes well with LOADS of stuff open at once, including Remote Assistance.

Will be looking further into this as I'm like a dog with a bone and this will help me in the future incase someone else (ie a client) has similar problems!

[gandalf72]

Cheers for the help m8 much appreciated.

Update since our last chat.

I have thrashed the little blighter by doing the following:

Downloaded about 156gb in last 2 days
Transfered same amount of files to external hard drive that I just hooked up that was not previously hooked up.
Listening to a hour long pod cast while thrashing the hard disk.
Monitoring the processes - hits 100% at some stages but most times sitting around the 50 - 60%

I managed to download the bootcd but it had the Suspicious.Emmet thing again on it. Norton took care of it and thankfully just one exe file this time compared with multiple last time. The disk is now burnt and tonight I will switch pc off for a couple of mins and then run the memtest and report back in the morning.

System has not been switched off as of yet as I have really tried to push this swine of a machine into falling but it is sticking its fingers up at me.

I find this odd as Deja Vu will tell you there was lots of dates with the power kernal shutdown listed. Only main reason for more dates not listed was down to PC not being switched on at that point.

Thanks again for help and as Deja Vu says any suggestions let us know please.

[gandalf72]

Just a quick update

Took 1 hour 35 mins to complete one pass using memtest86+ v4.10. Outcome pass no errors. I will update again tomorrow morning.

Night all and thanks for all the help.

[TotallyRandom]

hirens boot cd will show virus as its got combo fix on it.

Run memtest 30 time overnight as i've seen it throw up errors after 5 test on some ram