What is the best way to identify what is causing a PC to hang

[DejaVu]

Their 'engineer' is clearly a numpty! Phone and ask - nah! DEMAND that the PSU gets replaced at least.
If he knew what he was doing... He wouldnt be working for MESH! PMSL!

That way, if he is right (which he aint) then you have eradicated 1 issue!

Computers can crash intermittently - FACT.
Running a computer 24 hours a day DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE FAULT FINDING!
In order to have it crash, he needs to be using it. Lets suppose it was the mouse crashing it everytime it moved! He'd never know!

Sorry your having so much grief with these cowboys, it really does get my goat. I've been a technician for 15 years. Their 'engineer' is talking out his arse!

[gandalf72]

Thanks for the above, it never ceases to amaze me this company. He claims he was playing a game on my pc (didnt ask which) and it was fine.

I could understand if I hadnt done so much troubleshooting for him and hadnt had help from yourself and other kind members of this forum.

If I was an engineer and had someone went to the length of troubleshooting done the least I would do is thank them and hear / read what they had done. This guy gives me the impression he hadnt. I even put on the desktop a step by step txt document of how I installed the operating system with drivers so he would at least give me some form of credability but it just seems their engineers insist on doing their own thing come what may.

I await his call tomorrow this will be interesting not!! lol.

[TotallyRandom]

tell him you want details Trouble shooting preformed on the system to identify possible fault as will be speaking to trading standards if nothing is done

[gandalf72]

Just got an email from their service department and they have been unable to find any fault with my PC and are refusing to replace any parts as they could not find any issues.

Just unreal, it begs the question why would a customer send a pc for repair so many times times and put as many details of troubleshooting if there was no fault.

They are going to email me to let me know about arranging uplift of the pc from them tomorrow after it passes their quality control - the same quality control that says it is aceptable to send a pc with buckled chassis and a 2.5 inch plastic casing bit missing from front end of pc at the right hand side!!

[gandalf72]

I have sent the following email in reply to them:

Thanks for the reply; I am disappointed that nothing has been found. I sent a 3-4 page email with all diagnostics that I done, this is the second time that I have sent pc with this exact issue. Why would I send you a pc that was hanging and not blue screening, producing no memory dumps?

The pc hangs intermittent and displayed power and hard drive controller errors at the time the system hung. If the system hangs and does not show blue screen or memory dump it is not software related and I ruled software out of the problem by installing vista, windows 7 32 and 64 bit and it hung on all systems. It even hung with your own out of date vista service pack 1 installed and out of date drivers that was installed and returned to me last time and no other software installed after leaving idle for 4 days.

I request that the PSU details please be given to me and what the voltages are for each of the internal components i.e. memory card reader, hard drive, graphic card, DVD drive and usb ports to determine if the power supply unit is being peaked out and is not powerful enough to support if these devices are being used at one time and causing the system to hang when used in specific combinations.

It is the opinion of people that I have spoken to that the issue is related to either power spikes on board from PSU or PSU is not powerful enough to handle this system spec. I would like the PSU replaced please. Can you also please check the fans on the system as they were making strange noises and I suspect maybe full of debris or require cleaning but as I am prohibited from going in to system I have been unable to clean it.

I would also like you to identify exactly what tests you have done please.





The only thing that has majorly changed except operating system is that I deleted the recovery partition prior to install of new operating system and it did not hang from that moment to me sending it back or it only hung once I cant quiet remember but think it didnt hang. Would this cause the controller errors and potential hangs?

[gandalf72]

I have just got an email reply back

" I do not have access to the electrical specifications of all the components; however, having taken the list of components in the machine to my colleagues in R&D they have said they feel the 550W PSU is sufficient for it. We can change the PSU to an uprated model but as no fault was found during the inspection of the machine, there would be an upgrade charge. If you contact our Service Centre on 0871 200 3446 it will be able to advise on current availability and pricing.

Andrei
MESH Computers
"

They are now threating to bill me for looking at system and for delivery and the cost of replacement PSU would be full price no upgrade price!!

[gandalf72]

Hi all,

Interesting development, my girlfriend has almost exact same pc but up till now I was not aware that her system was hanging intermitantly. She says it has not hung to same extent as mine.

That said an interesting experiment was done and can duplicate the same type of hang as mine.

Scenario:
USB device to PC or PC to USB the system will hang with nothing other than operating system and windows explorer.

Outcome
mid transfer the system hangs

Port Used
Front Port

USB Devices
Have used kingston 16gb, Sandisk Cruzer 4gb and Integra 2gb, Panasonic Digital Camera connected via usb cable

Role play
device tries to transfer multiple files of large size from device or pc to other it will result in a hang. If transfer small file no issue.

Connected to other usb ports are an external seagate hard drive and logitech dongle.

She also has similar amount of power kernal and hard disk controller errors.

The camera is self powered and pen drives have been standard pendrives.

Any idea why this would happen. File transfers of 2.3gb and 3.2gb resulted in hang on her pc. The one from the camera was a 1gb file.

This may or may not be similar to my one except for the frequency. Her system is out of warranty so I could potentially ask to open up system on this one.

Thanks in advance.

[EvilBoB]

If it's USB transfers it could be that you have the VIA USB chipset. I used to have this problem way back when. Bought a £10 USB card from the interweb and it fixed it. Just had to make sure that the card wasn't a VIA chipset one. It was more noticeable back in the USB modem days and would happen when getting faster speeds but I also had it with USB hard drives.

[gandalf72]

Thanks for that, I just tried another USB transfer with a device that hadnt been used today and it worked. The board I have is asus m479t delux need to have a look at that and see if it is the via chipset. The interesting thing for me is the same type of hang and having similar event viewer errors but not getting to same level as me.

I was also wondering if it was getting confused with the chipset driver as the controller errors indicate hard disk 1 or 2 dr1 problem which is the usb drive or pendrive. I think when I removed the recovery partition it seemed more stable. Could it be thinking it is raid and that is why it gives the event id 11?

Saying that I only had system for 2 days prior to it being picked up so that may not hold any weight.

Chipset is AMD SB750 Chipset

[gandalf72]

Hi all,

Just to let you know that the system has now been returned to me on Tuesday. I had the PSU replaced to 700w version no idea of model etc.

I have at present 32 bit version of win 7, norton security 2010 and they stuck crysis demo on. Today was first time that I stuck a powered external hard drive on. I was installing itunes and it was going through the process of taking a look at my music and it hung and I also had vlc downloading at same time.

Same scenario in event viewer critical error this time no hard drive controller errors but in the error section was the generic windows shutdown was not proper apart from that nothing else of note.

First time it has hung. PC has been plugged into a belkin surge protector but I have now changed that to direct into its own power source. PC is connected via a dvi cable to hdmi in to plasma.

The system never produced any faults while on test at MESH.

This may just be a one off incident but now that we have ruled out PSU from the mix what would you suggest next?

Thanks in advance

[TotallyRandom]

when system crashed was the hard drive in the front or the back? Have you tried this hard drive with another system? When you say crash are you able too get in too task manager or dose it shut down this time

[gandalf72]

The hard drive was in the front usb port when it was connected. The external hard drive was also in another system a dell laptop and no hang. However when it connected to my girlfriends pc (exact same pc make and model except for memory card reader (hers hangs when usb hard drives connect to front usb port either first time used with that system or if it has not been connected there for a long time and is then fine after that for some strange reason)) front ports which was not connected to before it hung there.

The thing is with her pc it seems to be if a usb drive is connected and has not been connected for a while it hangs.

In terms of the hang it is the same type of hang no message on screen , no bsod, no black screen just what ever was on the screen at the time. No keyboard response and the only way to get the system back up and working is to switch off by holding power button 10 seconds.

In the back of my pc is wireless usb and usb adapter that has a logitech dongle attached.

I have not put any of my usual software on at all other than the software mentioned earlier (win 7, norton security 2010, itunes, video lan and they stuck crysis demo on pc apart from that there is nothing else installed).

[Over Carl]

Sorry it's not gonna help this issue, but I would urge you to remove norton and replace with microsoft security essentials (free of charge).

To be totally honest, when I decide to change av on my personal computer, I also will wipe the os and start again, but I think you have other worries at the moment.

[gandalf72]

Quick update.

System has now been running a couple of days since last post. In that time I took the power cable from the power surge and plugged it direct into its own socked (the other side of the dual socket) and left the other cables in the power surge block for tv etc.

The system had been stable for about a day and a half but then hung while in chrome watching a football stream.

I don't have a spare monitor so cant test that on another power socket as it is connected to plasma. I don't think though it is anything to do with plasma though.

Still get the same critical error and the generic system shutdown 6008 id. There is no other errors being reported. No additional devices added. External powered hard drive front port since pc booted up.

This is just weird if anyone has any ideas as to what I could try next it would be much appreciated. Problem seems to be not able to be replicated and when it does happen it leaves no message in event viewer.

Thanks in advance.

[pattikins]

I can't believe this thread has gone on so long, at the end of the day if you have tried formatting and still have problems then surely it has to be a hardware issue - in which case you'd continue to slug it out with the shop where you bought it..

I have yet to come accross a driver/software problem that can't be fixed with a good 'ol format.. examining stop/blue screen errors etc isn't going to go anywhere as according to the OP the computer is not exhibiting any of those symptoms..

so yeah, maybe you can spend hour after hour doing this check, checking that.. but at the end of the day in this case all you need to do is determine if this is infact a hardware issue as you have a warranty which covers everything as one complete (and working) unit.. it would be different if you bought the parts seperate and you specifically needed to identify which one.. but fook em.. it's the shops problem and the shop's job to find out which part is buggered..

Looks like sound advice to me. You've gone well beyond the call of duty. Unless you're happy running diagnostic software ad infinitum (I'd say 99% of MESH's customers haven't had to do what you've done), you need to be asking them to replace the system, or bite the bullet & start swapping parts.

If they won't replace the system, it might be worth re-running prime95 - your cpu seems a tad hot (I've got a Phenom II 720 & that runs around the 22c mark (idle) - that's in a system with 5 hd's, & HD4890...).

[gandalf72]

Thanks for the above, under normal situation I would do exactly what was recommended but as you will have seen from reading this thread and thanks for doing that Mesh have had PC now directly twice for diagnostics and both times they have never found the problem.
First time they had access to the event logs etc second time I formatted drive a couple of days prior to handing it back to them.

Mesh on this last occasion were going to charge me for delivery and parts if they could not find any issue. My warranty only covers the standard part replacement and not delivery but since Mesh do not know how to package a PC correctly every time I get it back the seal is burst. It means there could be potential transit damage.

The other surprising thing is that the system under their test conditions allegedly does not produce the fault and therefore they will not do anything. I had to pretty much beg for them to put it to a more senior department and only through that did I get the PSU replaced as a goodwill gesture.

Believe me when I say if I thought I could just return system to them and get new system or money back I would but system is too old for that in its final month of warranty. This was the reason that thanks to those who have helped in earlier posts I have tried the diagnostics that I done to see if I could get a exact cause which I could not get. I have asked Mesh in the past when system was 6-7 months old for refund or replacement and they said no.

I don't have any swap parts nor any money as I am a student at present and not working at the moment which in essence means that unless I can replicate fault on a consistent basis I have no chance of resolving this.

With help from you and other posters I am more than willing to do diagnostics to hopefully get it to the point I get replicate the fault but not used to diagnostics but am more than willing to learn.

Through the diagnostics that people have helped me to run and with hard drive and PSU replaced and with one earlier poster comment I think it could be potentially down to board or CPU.

They claim they done a board diagnostic but I have never heard of a diagnostic software that tests asus boards maybe one of you know of such a tool?

pattikins thanks for your suggestions and your help. Like you and other posters I cant believe it has gone on for so long but welcome to my Mesh hell experience.

These guys cant even return a pc with proper packaging and substitute pc chassis boxes with other boxes that they get from parts they order instead of pc chassis style boxes that I sent it with and they don't care about it (3 times this has happened to me).

A quality department that sends a PC out with 2.5 inch plastic shard missing from front right lower side of pc tower and buckled rear panel. An engineer that cant find windows event viewer logs that show critical or error and even when told to check their own forum he would not do. The list goes on and on and on m8 but they are based in London and I am in Glasgow and there is not really a great deal that I can do that I have not already tried which has meant this thread has gone to this length and I am still stuck with a PC that has never worked properly since the first week I bought it.

The only saving grace is the good folk on here who have tried to help me and I am very grateful for your and their help with this issue.

[pattikins]

System Spec

AMD Phenom™ II X4 920 Quad Core Processor AM2+ (2.80GHz, 8MB Cache)
ASUS M4A79T Deluxe Mainboard - AMD 790FX CrossFireX- AM3 Phenom™ II, DDR3 - ATX
4096MB 800MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM - (2x 2GB)
1TB (1x 1000GB) Serial ATA 2 Hard Drive with 32MB Buffer
Samsung 22x Dual Layer DVD Writer Super Format +R/-R/RW/RAM
1GB ATI HD4670 Graphics accelerator - DVI, DirectX 10.1 PCI Express 2
7.1 High Definition onboard sound card - for 8 Channel Cinema sound
12 USB 2.0 ports (12 USB 2.0 ports (6 on back I/O, 6 on board) - ASUS M2N68-VM
Network Ready Gigabit LAN (10/100/1000)
I added a wireless linksys wusb100 usb adapter
I dont know about the psu it came with the system case
Midi Tower XGS Xtreme Gaming Chassis - Black / Black Mesh + 550W PSU

You seem to have listed 2 motherboards. The 4gb of DDR2 memory that you've listed will only work with the second board- ASUS M2N68-VM. The M4A79T uses DDR3. Have you paid for the M4A79T & received the M2N68-VM? If you've got the M2N68-VM, what bios version do you have (i.e., 0701 ) - coz the 0803 bios update specifically seeks to
'Reduce the thermal of CPU' - & I think you have a heat problem. Have you tried running prime95 + a cpu intensive game (i.e., Unreal Tournament - windowed) @ the same time?
The cpu shouldn't take long to get hot - use CPUID to measure the temp. If it gets anywhere near the 60C it is too hot!

I have asked Mesh in the past when system was 6-7 months old for refund or replacement and they said no.

They claim they done a board diagnostic but I have never heard of a diagnostic software that tests asus boards maybe one of you know of such a tool?

They probably say that to everyone - they're working on the principle that their customers don't know that they have rights & give up. I'm no expert in consumer rights, but I believe that if the problem is identified within the warranty period, & the problem hasn't been satisfactorily rectified, then it doesn't matter if you've owned the PC for longer than 12 months. It's a bit old but this might give you a few ideas:

http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-1905260.php

The ASUS diagnostic software to which they're referring is probably the POST Reporter (i.e., you get a voice message instead of beeps).

[gandalf72]

Thanks for pointing that out to me. When I originally ordered there was problems with the pc and they kept on changing the order specifically processor and ram. I am not at the system at the moment I am on my girlfriends one.

I know I have the ASUS M4A79T Deluxe Mainboard as that comes up on the splash screen and I updated that to the latest bios prior to sending it away a couple months back.

If you can give me any pointers that I can find out any info without opening chassis I will do that no problem for you and I will go back to my house tomorrow and let you know the outcome.

I can see if I can get any game and what ever diagnostic from newsgroups just let me know which one is best and I will follow your instructions.

Thanks for your help on this it is very much appreciated.

[gandalf72]

Thanks overcarl for the settings I hope I have done this right

running p95 with the following settings:

Custom: 4 threads,
First box 8kb second box to the right of that /8kb, fft's in place
Left the other box unticked and then the box to the right of that the figure that is the default and finally left the other box at 15 mins - kills cpu/fpu

I am currently trying to get crysis warhead and should hopefuly have that in 2hrs time.

If anyone knows the best setting to set this at that will enable me to window it and max out the CPU please let me know.

I heard crysis is the most hungry of CPU games if this is not the case let me know another to try and I will. I have also installed CPU-z v1.55 july version I am not seeing any mention of cpu temps on it though. It does confirm memory as DDR 3 2048 pc3 - 10700H (667) Samsung in slots one and two. Graphic card confirmed ATI radeon HD4670 1024mb in clock section - 600 core and 850 memory. There is an option to validate or press ok but apart from that I cant see any option about CPU temp.

I have just installed core temp 0.99.7 and it shows the core temp at 57 degrees at the moment and I have not made any changes to that setup on that program. Currently running is norton, newsbin, google chrome, outlook and the core temp.

pattikins if you want me to change anything please let me know and thanks again for your help it is very much appreciated.

[pattikins]

The Maximum operating temperature (°C) for the Phenom II 920 is supposed to be between: 55 - 62
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AM...0XCGIBOX).html

@ 57 degrees it looks like the cpu is running very hot. There are two likely outcomes -the cpu is either throttled (performance drop) or there is a system freeze. This might account for why you're unable to replicate a fault.

There are quite a few tools for measuring cpu/gpu temp etc. I use CPUID:
http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

Asus have their own too. I think it's called Probe II - you'll probably find it on the mobo driver disk.

re crysis warhead: just turn off full screen in the games system settings*. It might also be worth running fraps to measure the drop in framerate (throttling). Farcry 2 is a better choice for benchmarking.

*whilst you're in the game bring down the console & type: r_DisplayInfo = 1