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  1. #1
    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Bad News Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    In a move that could have a have a significant impact on the used software market, a US federal appeals court has backed software maker Autodesk’s attempts to combat second hand sales of its products covered by widely used licensing agreements. The ruling was made in a case covering computer software sales on eBay by defendant Timothy Vernor, who had bought unopened copies of Autodesk’s AutoCAD software at garage and office sales and then sold them on online without ever agreeing to the licensing agreement imposed on the original buyer, the Associated Press reports.

    While the US Supreme Court’s 102-year-old "first-sale" doctrine says that copyright holders can't prevent consumers from reselling or renting a product after an initial sale, the US 9th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed a 2008 decision affirming Vernor's right to sell the used software, ruling that Autodesk’s contract made it clear that the rights to install its programs were being licensed rather than sold.

    Numerous software programs are covered by licensing agreements that use similar language to Autodesk's, and the ruling has raised the possibility that game publishers, music labels and movie studios will attempt to come up with their own licensing agreements to restrict second hand sales of their products. As noted by Gamasutra, Electronic Arts' standard end user license agreement reads: “This Software is licensed to you, not sold.”

    Vernor's attorney, Gregory Beck of Public Citizen, told the AP that the ruling “means the infrastructure already is in place for other software makers to say their customers don't really own those programs". He said he will seek a review of the court’s decision before considering an appeal to the US Supreme Court.

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    Been saying this for years and no one believed me, it's something they have always had in their back pockets but have never used due to the public's reaction, the law is the same here and in theory they could seek to stop the sale of second hand games or control it by licence Greedy bastards

  2. #2
    DF VIP Member Over Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    Autodesk are cunts. Because I put through "an excessive amount of activations" (I reimage each pc after it's done on each project), they claimed we were pirating and they won't let me put through automated requests anymore - have to send them a full inventory of all their products in use before they get me my activation codes.

  3. #3
    DF VIP Member stimpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by Over carl View Post
    Autodesk are cunts. Because I put through "an excessive amount of activations" (I reimage each pc after it's done on each project), they claimed we were pirating and they won't let me put through automated requests anymore - have to send them a full inventory of all their products in use before they get me my activation codes.
    Just another example of how DRM affects legit users and only slightly inconveniences pirates.

    I have re-installed Adobe Creative Suite a number of times on various work machines over the years (completely legit boxed copies). Due to the licences not being deactivated (hard drive failure or users simply not realising it need doing), I have run out of 'activations' on most of my copies.

    Adobe really are a pain in the backside about it.

  4. #4
    DF VIP Member Possy_99's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    I'd like to see them stop 2nd hand sales - then i'd love the oppertunity to laugh in their faces once their piracy rate rises.. greedy, moronic numpties..

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    yeah we have the same problem with them, activations stop working if used too often and you have to contact them directly - fuckin waste of time, especially considering how much all this shit costs
    You know he grew up as a little shitspark from the old shitflint and then he turned into a shitbonfire and driven by the winds of his monumental ignorance he turned into a raging shitfirestorm. If I get to be married to Barb I'll have total control of Sunnyvale and then I can unleash the shitnami tidal wave that will engulf Ricky and extinguish his shitflames forever. And with any luck he'll drown in the undershit of that wave. Shitwaves.

  6. #6
    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    I would imagine this has probably been used behind the scenes to try and force the second hand game sellers such as GAME to agree to paying a licence fee on all second hand games sales and would now be pushed even more, if they can get an agreement I would predict a future plan to block other outlets such as Ebay listing them.

    I don't think you will get direct action through the courts to block it due to the predictable public outcry and possible change in legislation from that to exempt games from the licence system.

  7. #7
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    If this allowed to happen then the sky is the limit for all manufacturers.

    Imagine this happening in the car industry ?

    Or even in the fashion industry on things like Diesel jeans etc.

    Ebay would be forced to close down and charity shops would remain empty.

    This shit needs stamping out now before it escalates to all kinds of stupidness where the only winners would be the lawyers again.
    There are 3 types of people in the world - those who make things happen, those who watch things happen; and those who wondered what happened.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    Yet more bullshit legislation.
    If at first you don't succeed.....redefine success. . . .


  9. #9
    DF VIP Member Neo\nsc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    well if they block second hand games sales i will just stop buying games full stop

  10. #10
    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2 View Post
    If this allowed to happen then the sky is the limit for all manufacturers.

    Imagine this happening in the car industry ?

    Or even in the fashion industry on things like Diesel jeans etc.

    Ebay would be forced to close down and charity shops would remain empty.

    This shit needs stamping out now before it escalates to all kinds of stupidness where the only winners would be the lawyers again.
    Some of this has already happened if you look up the cases against Ebay in France that have been won to stop the sale of some items although this is related to the fact they use a licence system on games which I consider wrong as it is not creative software in that it is used to produce additional works and should be deemed as a sold product rather than buying the licence to use it.

    The Diesel jeans is another example that has already a president in law here by the Levi jeans vs Tesco case in that they won the case when Tesco imported levi jeans from outside the EU (Mexico) to sell in their store and the court deemed that these although produced for Levi did not get produced for the UK market and could be sold in the UK which relates to the Grey imports laws now, interesting case and worth looking up.

  11. #11
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    I wonder how long it will take then before someone decides to take on the likes of Oxfam ?

    I'd like to think that noone with an ounce of intelligence would even go there, but when it comes to money people tend to get stupid.

    Maybe someone on Ebay will try to sell something stating they are going to donate the money to charity.
    There are 3 types of people in the world - those who make things happen, those who watch things happen; and those who wondered what happened.

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  12. #12
    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2 View Post
    I wonder how long it will take then before someone decides to take on the likes of Oxfam ?

    I'd like to think that noone with an ounce of intelligence would even go there, but when it comes to money people tend to get stupid.

    Maybe someone on Ebay will try to sell something stating they are going to donate the money to charity.
    Not quite sure I don't think they will ever go down the road of direct court action for the reasons I stated but bit by bit manipulate the market and sellers into an agreement.

    if they can sign up say 4 of the biggest second hand game sellers into paying licence on second hand game sales with a promise of giving them a monopoly on the market by locking out their competition and taking action against the others who don't comply they will go this route, I have no doubt negotiations along these lines have already been happening behind closed doors.

    The charity angle I would think they would go along the exemption route or a unsigned agreement not to challenge their sales but who knows.

  13. #13
    DF VIP Member AD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Court Ruling Threatens Used Game Sales

    Too much greed going on, they are trying to get their hands on every bit of cash they can. Fair enough, like EA and Activision have done when you buy the game you get a code to play online. If you sold your copy the online part wouldn't work until you paid the £10 or what ever it is to play online (this goes for pirates mainly). But to fork out say £20 for the game and then pay another £10 for the multiplayer, you may as well just buy the game from new.

    Having bought the game, "YOU" should be entitled to do what ever you want with it, keep it, let it gather dust or sell it on to the next man so it gets some use out of it....

    Gone or going are the days of free rides and bargins... I hate this world we have become, Can I go back to the 80's please. C64 and tape to tape copiers lol.

    -=AD=-

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