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  1. #1
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Attention Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers


    Child benefit is to be axed for higher rate taxpayers from 2013, Chancellor George Osborne has announced.
    He told the BBC it was a "big decision" but "absolutely necessary" as it would save £1bn a year at a time of extreme pressure on government finances.
    Any couples where one parent earns about £44,000 - roughly the 40% tax level - and above will be affected.
    But critics said single parents and couples on relatively modest incomes would be penalised.


    Universal benefit

    Currently child benefit is paid to 7.7 million families with children, costing about £12bn a year.
    Ministers estimate the change will affect about 1.2 million families.
    The coalition says big reductions in expenditure are needed in nearly all areas of government, if it is to bring down the budget deficit.
    Mr Osborne said: "It's very hard to justify taxing people on much lower incomes in order to pay the child benefit to some of the better off in our society."
    He confirmed the cut would hit homes with a single or two high earners but families with two parents on incomes up to £44,000 - which might add up together to over £80,000 - would keep the benefit.
    The chancellor defended this by saying his plan was "the most straightforward" option - which would avoid across the board means testing.



    'In it together'



    "It's not a decision we've taken lightly," he added.
    "But given the scale of the debts Labour's left us with, and given they've left us with no plan and we've had to come up with proposals, we think this is fair.
    "It means we're all in this together. Each part of society is going to be making a contribution"
    At the moment, parents are paid £20.30 a week for the eldest child and £13.40 for subsequent children, with payments continuing until the age of 19 for those in full-time education.
    Families with three children who will no longer be eligible to receive child benefit face being £2,500 a year worse.
    The chancellor insisted this was a "one-off" measure and did not mark the end of the principle of universal benefits which have underpinned the welfare state for decades.


    Under the proposed changes, a family where both parents are earning just under £44,000 will continue to receive child benefit while a family where only one person is working and whose income is just above £44,000 will lose the payment.
    Asked whether this was an anomaly in the proposal, Mr Osborne said the alternative was to introduce a "complex" system of means testing where all households had their incomes assessed.
    People will be expected to declare on their tax returns whether they fall within the 40% and 50% tax brackets and the money will then be clawed back through the tax system.
    However, Mr Osborne urged top-rate taxpayers to stop claiming child benefit altogether, saying this would be the "most sensible" thing to do.


    'Catastrophic'

    BBC political editor Nick Robinson said the government's move amounted to a middle-class tax rise that would directly hit most delegates at the Conservative conference.
    He said that this reflected the contradiction that, while the party was delighted to be back in government, it was having to come to terms with the reality of the painful decisions facing the country if it was to meet its objective of eliminating the structural deficit within five years.
    Mr Osborne announced in June's Budget that child benefit would be frozen for three years.
    Although the 40% tax rate currently takes effect for those on annual incomes of £37,401, once the £7,000 annual personal allowance is taken into account, the figure rises to more than £44,000.
    But critics say the move will further penalise people on relatively modest incomes.
    "They're not people who are rich," said Paul Noon, general secretary of the Prospect union.
    "They are people who pay their taxes, they are people that work hard and need this sort of income to keep families together and support children."
    Martin Narey, chief executive of Barnardos, said the charity "bitterly regretted" that child benefit would be cut but it understood the government could not ignore the expenditure.
    "If child benefit has to be cut, and we regret that it has to be, it should be done on the basis of income. People who earn more money should lose child benefit," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
    However, he added cutting benefits for older children could be "catastrophic".
    "There are already many families living in poverty where dad and mum are in full-time work, they have teenage children, very many of them still a long way from a reasonable living standard.
    "To take away child benefit from them just because their kids are 14 to 15, would be foolish and very damaging. It would certainly plunge many more families into poverty."


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  2. #2
    DF Jedi Possy_99's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    what they should do is say you only get benefit for the 1st 2 kids.. then all the slappers who drop kids left right and center will have no option but to keep their knickers on.

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    DF PwNagE liveseytowers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    If I was the sole worker earning 44k i'd be annoyed that another family which earn's 80k+ can still claim it. But does a family who earns 44k really need child benefit anyway? I doubt it.

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    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Possy_99 View Post
    what they should do is say you only get benefit for the 1st 2 kids.. then all the slappers who drop kids left right and center will have no option but to keep their knickers on.
    That wouldn't work as they would just give up one of the kids for adoption if they fell pregnant a third time.

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    DF PwNagE Geko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    I don't agree with it. Why should the rich support the poor. We all have equal opportunity to earn.

    But... If it is just the begining of a huge benefit reform that targets the work shy and lazy. Then the Tories will have my vote.

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    DF PwNagE _Belial's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by liveseytowers View Post
    If I was the sole worker earning 44k i'd be annoyed that another family which earn's 80k+ can still claim it. But does a family who earns 44k really need child benefit anyway? I doubt it.
    I get more annoyed with earning 80k+ and watching the lazy sods spunking away my hard earned tax instead of trying to get a job tbh.

  7. #7
    Awaiting Email Confirm Thalamus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    So the guy who is out of work and has just fathered his eighth kid still gets his child benefit.

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    DF Jedi Brydo666's Avatar
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    Default

    I fully support this. I don't earn £44K and could do without the benefit no problem.

  9. #9
    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Geko View Post
    I don't agree with it. Why should the rich support the poor. We all have equal opportunity to earn.

    But... If it is just the begining of a huge benefit reform that targets the work shy and lazy. Then the Tories will have my vote.
    Swings and roundabouts "the poor" may have been working since 16 supporting the further education of these high earners or now as a mass bailing out the banks through more cuts that don't effect the people who caused the problem.

    They should scrap it completely and amazing comments without understanding as anyone on benefits, tax credits etc does not get it as it's considered income so given with one hand and removed with the other.

    The problem you have in targeting or perceived targeting of the workshy and lazy is they normally know exactly how to work the system and it ends up only screwing people with genuine need, people being made redundant finding a mass of hoops to jump through before they can even get the tiny bit of help they have spent their lives paying tax to support.

  10. #10
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Geko View Post
    I don't agree with it. Why should the rich support the poor. We all have equal opportunity to earn.
    The most deluded quote I've heard since Marie Antoinette.

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    VIP Member CzarJunkie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    I'd turn the whole thing on it's head and actually charge you for having kids. That way only those who can financially support a child and are willing to pay for it can actually have one.

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    DF Jedi Ginnerfreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2 View Post
    The most deluded quote I've heard since Marie Antoinette

    There is not evidence to say that she actually uttered those words.. I also doubt that you heard her.

    However as a higher rate tax payer I am sick of being used as a funding mechanism. I worked hard to get where I am and I feel that I had the same opportunities as everyone else.

    Apart from those with a disability, i don't see why I am punished for working hard and capitalising on the opportunity's that they couldn't be arsed pursuing.

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    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginnerfreak View Post
    There is not evidence to say that she actually uttered those words.. I also doubt that you heard her.

    However as a higher rate tax payer I am sick of being used as a funding mechanism. I worked hard to get where I am and I feel that I had the same opportunities as everyone else.

    Apart from those with a disability, i don't see why I am punished for working hard and capitalising on the opportunity's that they couldn't be arsed pursuing.
    This is a statement but what has it to do with the topic? And if you want to pick up on the "let them eat cake" I think everyone knows it was actually documented as being first said before she was born so she may or may not have said it but she certainly wasn't the first if she did.

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    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ginnerfreak View Post
    There is not evidence to say that she actually uttered those words.. I also doubt that you heard her.
    What part of the word QUOTE don't you understand ?

    You are not trying to play Einstein again are you ?

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    DF VIP Member gunner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    It makes sense to do this.
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    DF Demi God BBK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Im happy to lose the small amount of additional income we would get from this as it does appear to be part of the bigger picture. I do not need or indeed want money from the government to raise my children, but I accept I am FORTUNATE enough to be able to do that. Not everyone is.

  17. #17
    DF Jedi Ginnerfreak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Bouncer View Post
    I think everyone knows it was actually documented as being first said before she was born .

    Clearly they didnt!


  18. #18
    DF Jedi AspectUK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Bouncer View Post
    Swings and roundabouts "the poor" may have been working since 16 supporting the further education of these high earners or now as a mass bailing out the banks through more cuts that don't effect the people who caused the problem.

    They should scrap it completely and amazing comments without understanding as anyone on benefits, tax credits etc does not get it as it's considered income so given with one hand and removed with the other.

    The problem you have in targeting or perceived targeting of the workshy and lazy is they normally know exactly how to work the system and it ends up only screwing people with genuine need, people being made redundant finding a mass of hoops to jump through before they can even get the tiny bit of help they have spent their lives paying tax to support.
    With you on this I think.

    It should be scrapped completely and families who are already means tested ie. those that get benefits such as Working Families Tax Credits and Child Tax Credits should get it as an extra payment.

    There is no reason why families that have larger incomes should receive this at all.

    My ex mother in law used to give her daughter the Child Benefit book when she was in her teens to go and draw out as her spending money, that's how much some families actually need this payment.

    .. and, the same ex mother in law (70 years old) now gets a motability car paid in full (she does have bad joints and a recent knee op etc) and ex father in law has a nice new jag with private plate. They live in a four bed detached (paid for) and survive off their company pensions. Now, they are lovely people and I still get on great with them, but in the scheme of things that's just not right.

    It's about time they looked at this in much greater depth and means tested every benefit there is. Then maybe the health service and all the other departments that are so sorely lacking funding can start getting what they need.

  19. #19
    DF PwNagE Geko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Bouncer View Post
    Swings and roundabouts "the poor" may have been working since 16 supporting the further education of these high earners or now as a mass bailing out the banks through more cuts that don't effect the people who caused the problem.

    They should scrap it completely and amazing comments without understanding as anyone on benefits, tax credits etc does not get it as it's considered income so given with one hand and removed with the other.

    The problem you have in targeting or perceived targeting of the workshy and lazy is they normally know exactly how to work the system and it ends up only screwing people with genuine need, people being made redundant finding a mass of hoops to jump through before they can even get the tiny bit of help they have spent their lives paying tax to support.
    I didn't go to University, I worked through an apprenticeship as my parents couldn't afford to send me. But I see your point.

    However we are all given an education. We are all able to put in as much work as we choose. Why should those that work hard support those that haven't? That is socialism is it not?

    Again I wouldn't want to take it away from those with genuine need. But benefits seems to be a "right" to a lot of those on it.

    I also agree that it should be completely scrapped. I would be far happier supporting a system that encourages people to work, and tops up their wages to a reasonable level rather than a system that encourages those to stay at home.




    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2 View Post
    The most deluded quote I've heard since Marie Antoinette.

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    Educate me as to why you disagree. I am interested. And I completely disagree.




    Edit - And in a lot of circumstances I feel disability is an excuse. Not in all obviously. But a lot of people are abusing this system and causing my resentment. I have a pretty severe illness that took away years of my life. I also had to have a major op and may have to have more. Yet I am still able to go to work almost every day. I haven't missed a day for 3 years. (When I had my op)... If you want to work, you usually can. Which is why most self employed people stay well.


    Edit2 - I jsut want to be clear. I am no Daily Mail Reader. And I am interested in being educated in my opinions if they are wrong. Posts like Bald Bouncers above are good.
    Last edited by Geko; 4th October 2010 at 05:57 PM.

  20. #20
    DF VIP Member crazyadi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Child benefit to be scrapped for higher taxpayers

    ive been saying this for years! not happy that a couple earning 40k a year each will still receive it though.

    if someone earns 80k a year they dont need £20 quid a week off the government! while i understand that those who pay hi taxes are not happy that some of those taxes goto scroungers and deadbeats i aint happy that i earn a mediocre wage and some of those taxes i pay goto those earning lots more money than i will EVER earn!!

    and im with possy you should only get it for the first 2 kids!

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