gas meters

[mrphil]

not looking to discuss anything illegal, so please keep this above board!


Was talking to a carpenter the other day as he was fitting interior doors for me and we got in to a discussion with regards to the cost of gas / electric on pre pay etc, he says you can buy your own gas meter freely of fleabay.. all come about as i asked if he could nicely box my meter in.

so what is the law/legalities on this, if you was in no contract with a supplier and asked them to remove there equipment and have a competent fitter (if you could find one) fit a gas meter... is there a constant gas flow in to the property all the time or do the national grid/supplier switch it off in no active contract?

a load of balls or doable with a fight... not looking at going down this road as the wife tells me im stupid enough as it is just curious to know....

my meters must see £160 a month of me, £20 on each per week, i dont think its too bad for a active 4 bed house, with the washing machine/dishwasher/tumble dryer/kettle/tv/lights on and off all day, and the gas just goes on at its own accord whenever.

[beansontoast]

It's no good putting a caveat at the top of the post and then ask about fitting an unregistered meter pretending it's not illegal to do it. May as well just ask how legal it is to plumb some pipe across where the meter goes.

[mrphil]

Just covering myself and the board.

Just looking for advice on this scenario, obviously the gas meters are on sale, so for what purpose would this be for, surely fleabay wouldn't allow illegal gas meters to be sold for illegal use...

If you bought one for example do you register this with the national grid? As you would not be in a contract with a supplier and would not have there equipment in your house.

Or do you have to be registered with a company that is registered with the national grid such as swalec, British gas etc? As gas is supplied via one pipe correct me if I'm wrong? My streets gas pipe runs in to all the houses and each house could be with any company so technically it's only the suppliers equipment.... And they have the right/legally to supply the gas as its being registered.

Ive also seen you can buy these £1 gas meter slots which landlords have installed in say student homes, but the landlord pays the gas bill and then recovers his cost through the money put through the slot?

Seriously i do not understand how it works and am curious to know even if curiosity does kill the cat :-)

It's all part of learning, and as ive said I'm not asking to do it, if someone wants to risk there lives/family/neighbours that's up to them and I'm not interested if people choose to this that's there private matter :-)
I'm quite happy paying my £20 a week on gas knowing my house is safe and I can monitor what I use! And I don't need to duck and hide when the meter reader comes around or if the plod come knocking due to discrepancies / theft of gas.

[macmilm]

In laws requested to have pre pay meters put in for gas/electric .. but they get charged a higher rate ??? They are paying in advance so that makes no sense to me !!!!

Just me 2p.

Interesting points above though imho

[blaggard]

I'm sure this is illegal, the meter is 'supply side' it may once have been possible to put in secondary meters in multi occupancy buildings but I can't imagine that is the case now.

[mrphil]

its one of them possibly, lets say we are all law abiding citizens go about our own buisness, not doing anything wrong, pay the bills every month, no questions ask..... IS IT what we are led in to beleiving that it is illegal to obtain gas for free if using your own meter...

Theft of gas, now if you have no suppliers equipment in your house, and the gas point in your house is capped (for safety) the feed coming in is still live and that line is registered to the national grid, nothing illegal here yet.... you buy your own gas meter for top £40 brand new.... nothing illegal here yet.... you find a competent plumber who will install this for you.... nothing illegal yet....

now you have gas that is live inside the property.... and you are in no contract, have no suppliers equipment that your are illegally tampering with....

so wheres the illegal part? the unregistered box or the fact your not paying for the supply of gas.... all you are doing is missing the middle man who is making the mega profit of us, so does this mean you can go to the national grid and pay directly to them, they will most likely laugh and tell you, that you need to go to a supplier, who will then place you in a contract or on prepay with there own meter....

you are not bypassing a suppliers meter and doing them out of pocket, you are not dangerously turning the gas meter around to do them out of pocket, you are not in any agreement to pay a supplier therefore you are not stealing any gas from that supplier. technically,
the way i look at it, look at all the gas leaks around the uk, that gas is wasted, whos paying for it, us with our high energy prices, i think its a big con and its a very shady area that no one wants to get in to.

ive been having a little look online, come across

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/foru...p?f=68&t=35628

and then found some newbies police training forum

http://www.policespecials.com/forum/...f-electricity/



But the point still is, you are in no contract, you have no suppliers equipment in your house, but the out feed is still live coming in to the property and the line is registered with the national grid, all you are doing is buying your own gas meter and having it installed, in to a property that has no contract/supplier equipment

does someone want to elaborate further and try and make me see some sense, as i said im not doing it, just want to know where the line is on this matter.

looking a bit further, at this police training, the said meter would be a legit gas meter and not a stolen one that has fallen of the back of the local transco van, however as stated on that website, deep down in the schedules states


Paragraph 10 - interfering with meters & fittings
(POSSIBLY, BUT A COMPETENT PLUMBER WOULD FIT AND ITS YOUR OWN EQUIPMENT)

Paragraph 11 - reconnecting supply without consent
(CONSENT FROM WHO, NATIONAL GRID? AS YOU ARE NOT WITH A SUPPLIER)

Paragraph 12 - fail notify re service connection
(SAME AS ABOVE REALLY)

Paragraph 13 -fail notify disconnection of meter
(THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AS THE SUPPLIER WOULD HAVE THERE EQUIPMENT BACK)

[beansontoast]

This is just an idiots reasoning. Best get some soap on a rope in.

[mrphil]

thats just an idiots thinking.... soap on a rope. you obviously have no idea what that environment is like, you should try it you will be pleasantly surprised, you wouldn't want to use the soap it drys your skin out, however you can buy lynx/radox on the canteen sheet :-)

Anyway, just wanting to know the legalities on said scenario, if you have no useful input then dont post, as said above by macmilm some good points, and as i said, we are all happy to live our law abiding lives and pay our bills, but why is there always third parties involved who take a cut, thats my real reasoning i suppose.

People are most likely interested in this thread, but just dont want to put there name to it, to get ridiculed or to get involved... There is nothing illegal going on, you can CLEARLY buy these meters on fleabay and alike, and you could most likely walk in to grahams and order one, so what.... there just an ornament for your fire place? REGARDLESS of whatever anyone thinks, would a supplier let you use your own meter.... i doubt that very much! so why are they on the market in the first place....

[stimpy]

It will still be classed as theft.

The common process is Supplier -> Provider -> You where the supplier is the National Grid / Transco / whoever, the provider buys wholesale and sells to you (just sits in the middle and take responsibility for the payments).

If you bypass your provider you are still in effect stealing from the supplier so it is still a serious criminal act.

There used to be charges of MISUSE of electricity back in the old days where you would dial an 0800 number, gain access to the PBX to dial out. I never did it personally but the theory was interesting at the time.

[raelmadrid]

always love an excuse to post some bottom!!

[Ashley]

A bloke in my work claims to have a 2nd meter that he changes with his main home one.

He said when they come round to check his never there gets a letter telling him when they'll return and then changes it back.

Surely it's not worth the hassle and risk just for free gas?

[mrphil]

love bottom :-)

Yes you are right, alot of people do this, but eventually it will catch up and theyll get caught out, as there will be discrepancies somewhere, for example you use no gas or your bill is very low whilst its been -5 all week, or you use very little over the summer, so are you not showering or is something up.... Now they put these plates, and a anti tamper seal on the units, so if every they sent an engineer or if the meter reader was nosy and noticed something up, then it would prove the units been tampered with. not every household has this only current say if you choose to swap over to pre pay this week, and i also think the new smart meters are ping up an alert if its been tampered with.

Again not looking at doing this as i said im happy paying and knowing what i use and if theres a problem.

Thanks for clearing things up, was just curious, just dont get why you can freely buy these meters when a provider would want to use there own units in a property. ok the market is not flooded with them, but you can freely buy them new on fleabay, and no doubt if you have a trade account you could probaly buy one at your local plumb merchants without any eyebrows being raised.

[burner1]

I knew a builder who, about 20 years ago now, bought a house for renovation. Once he'd basically gutted it, he got the gas company in to take out the meter and blank the pipe. He told them he'll be going all electric (Which he also rigged) once it's all done up. Once he'd rebuilt a couple of rooms, he got his gas fitter mate to fit another meter he'd got from somewhere and left that in and running for about 5 years till he'd finished the place and it was up for sale.

He'd lived in the place as he done it up, never got any visits from anyone. I suppose you take your chances on things like this.

[DavidF]

I think they can claim these are for you to monitor your own gas use after the official meter is installed. So in theory you could buy these to check your usage as long as they were fitted on the consumer side of the installation. I would also have thought that as suggested a multi occupancy building owner/landlord could make use of these meters and bill his tenants accordingly. I can't really see any problem with either scenario tbh. As long as fitted by competent persons ect then all should be fine in theory anyway.
Now if you want to talk about ebay and illegal items lol then check these bad boys out lmao -http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_tr...at=0&_from=R40

[Bald Bouncer]

It may not be the case but it might be that all meters remain the property of suppliers and can't legally be bought second hand for use again.

I know someone who is going through something along the lines you say with the water board.

They have stupid water charges at the moment around a grand and can't have a water meter, they wrote to the water company and said I will pay you £500 a year for water supply if you do not agree to this please withdraw your service which they did not, they are taking him to court so I will come back with results but his argument is they can't force him into a contract.

[Fon]

RE your friend with the water meter,

If you sell your house, you legally have to have one fitted.

Maybe a change of ownership without selling might enforce this?

Fon

[Bald Bouncer]

RE your friend with the water meter,

If you sell your house, you legally have to have one fitted.

Maybe a change of ownership without selling might enforce this?

Fon

Some places they won't fit them, I know my previous place they wouldn't/couldn't, I don't have one in the place I am now.

His argument has legal grounds but I am sure if a judge can find a way round that he will.

[consoles]

I've cable coming to in to my house, if I bought a "cable box/modem" and connected it and received channels its theft of service which I'm not paying for which should be paid for. It doesn't matter how you sugar coat it it's theft.

Gas is supplied by BG or which ever main supplier, if you uncap the main pipe which belongs to them, you are tampering with their feed. If you then installed your own meter it makes no difference its theft.

If you want free leccy just speak with your local grower they have electricians who can rig your house so anything hanging of a said extension plug wont register (apparently).

[blacksheep]

Some places they won't fit them, I know my previous place they wouldn't/couldn't, I don't have one in the place I am now.

His argument has legal grounds but I am sure if a judge can find a way round that he will.

Its not just supply of water though is it, it's sewerage isn't it?


http://www.thameswater.co.uk/your-account/567.htm

So whilst your mate might have a shaky claim for the water supply he doesn't have a leg to stand on if he flushes his toilets into the main sewer.

[Bald Bouncer]

Its not just supply of water though is it, it's sewerage isn't it?


http://www.thameswater.co.uk/your-account/567.htm

So whilst your mate might have a shaky claim for the water supply he doesn't have a leg to stand on if he flushes his toilets into the main sewer.

Yes very true but there is a lot more to it I didn't go into mainly to do with forced contract.