PS4 to support used games

[EvilBoB]

http://www.destructoid.com/did-trett...--256052.phtml PS4 isn't out of the clear totally. Typical of Sony to make a big announcement and then in the background backtrack some...

[Carterman]

If everyone went out, bought a game, played it for a bit and then lent it to a mate, how would you be able to play each other online etc..

Also I remember on the One reveal, the $ony Fanbois were laughing about the size of the HD been 500gb.... What's the PS4 one again?

It's funny. If $ony had revealed first then this would all be the other way around.

Think the point about the HD's is that you're having to fully install the game on the One before playing.. Considering the games are on Blu-Rays its not big enough really..

Mike

[_Belial]

http://www.destructoid.com/did-trett...--256052.phtml PS4 isn't out of the clear totally. Typical of Sony to make a big announcement and then in the background backtrack some...

That's exactly how PS3 + Xbox 360 is atm, online passes for some games if publishers want it, that's nothing to do with sony or ps4.

[fanni]

With the Xbox game install are mandatory so 500gb will fill up pretty quickly where as the ps4 aren't mandatory

Just hope the loading times have improved though as the ps3 is shite for it

Have either mentioned what read speed the drive is capable of?

[{{909}}]

regarding s/h games, it seems that both MS and Sony have the same policy, they personally wont imply any restrictions, but other developers can if they wish. As I said before, developers are chomping at the bit to stop s/h sales and now they can at their own risk, not at Sony's or MS's, which makes perfect sense.

[silentbob10]

regarding s/h games, it seems that both MS and Sony have the same policy, they personally wont imply any restrictions, but other developers can if they wish. As I said before, developers are chomping at the bit to stop s/h sales and now they can at their own risk, not at Sony's or MS's, which makes perfect sense.

Not strictly correct - only MS has the hardware/os designed to be able to restrict - publishers can use game passes (like some do currently) but won't be able to do anything on the ps4 that they couldn't already currently do on the ps3/360 to restrict used games sales.

[Goldberg]

Not strictly correct - only MS has the hardware/os designed to be able to restrict - publishers can use game passes (like some do currently) but won't be able to do anything on the ps4 that they couldn't already currently do on the ps3/360 to restrict used games sales.

At the end of the day it's the same thing.

I said earlier in this thread that people need to sit back and ride this out.
Also again, if you can afford the console, you can afford the games. I don't remember buying my SNES or Megadrive back in the day thinking this was important.
As I also said, wait a month or two and the games go down to £20 or less!

Look at COD, you can always get that for £25 at launch... In addition if you passed that on to a friend then how would you play against them...

Maybe there is another solution. Remember the gameboy colour had the ability to play a two player game with one cart (and the advance I think). Maybe companies should adopt that. Two people can play one game online against each other (one person owns it, the other downloads it). Maybe go further and let one of the other play it providing they are online.

[dannyboy]

Microsoft's view on people who don't have the internet: Buy an Xbox 360

imo, Microsoft are looking to the future of gaming. As we've seen with some of the games on show, many games are blurring the line between single player, co-op and multiplayer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxkEe_l7S3g

[Mr.James]

From what I'm reading s/h games is completely different. Sony have basically re-used the same model that everyone knows and loves.

Microsoft are restricting it so that you can only re-sell your game at an authorised retailer (my guess is also only receiving an approved resale price, same amount at all participating retailers). They have also killed the rental market. They are also restricting the lending of games to friends. This is all at the OS level, on top of any restrictions publishers want to impose...


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[EvilBoB]

From what I'm reading s/h games is completely different. Sony have basically re-used the same model that everyone knows and loves.

Microsoft are restricting it so that you can only re-sell your game at an authorised retailer (my guess is also only receiving an approved resale price, same amount at all participating retailers). They have also killed the rental market. They are also restricting the lending of games to friends. This is all at the OS level, on top of any restrictions publishers want to impose...


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Nope. Sony are doing the same. DRM is in place but it's up to the devs if they use it - Microsoft are doing the same thing. Even the restrictions of lending etc. are down to the publisher to implement moving the onus off microsoft. MS just have a more advanced approach to DRM "IF" the publishers want to use it.

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

This is the gotcha with this system - wonder how many will actually use this new "optional DRM"... (EA Anyone?!)

Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers.

[Mr.James]

Nope. Sony are doing the same. DRM is in place but it's up to the devs if they use it - Microsoft are doing the same thing. Even the restrictions of lending etc. are down to the publisher to implement moving the onus off microsoft. MS just have a more advanced approach to DRM "IF" the publishers want to use it.

Not from what I've seen. MS is pushing discless, once the game is installed and linked to live the CD is practically worthless.

Sony you can take the disc and play it in any machine you like.


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[EvilBoB]

Not from what I've seen. MS is pushing discless, once the game is installed and linked to live the CD is practically worthless.

Sony you can take the disc and play it in any machine you like.


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I hope that's the case to be honest. A discless system would rock! No more scratched or lost discs. Reduced loading times. mmmmm....

[DavidF]

When all is said and done the EU has actually commented on this very issue just the other week. Basically warning companies/software houses that when they sell a game in the EU they are basically selling the game/license to the purchaser and that purchaser can if he/she wishes sell it on. My wording is not exactly what was said but the general idea is what was meant. So either Sony and/or Microsoft will end up with EU fines or the Game companies will cop it from the EU IF they implement any restrictions in the EU regarding the 2nd hand gaming market.
Reading between the lines even just on this forum I think we are seeing a media led frenzy about nothing in particular.
1.Microsoft are being slated for making a media center.....which everyone was crying out for since XBMC appeared on the 1st xbox
2. Microsoft are being slated for making the kinect a "must have".....basically bundling it with the console....yet they were moaned at for not having "something like this" when the 360 came out
3. Microsoft are being slated for their stance on the 2nd hand game market.....but it is virtually the same as Sony's...and TBH who really cares ? What a real gamer wants is a game with longevity and it to be sooo bloody good you keep going back to it to play it again and again and again....add to that the obvious updates that will happen over the live service/purchase addon levels ect ect....maybe that £50 game may last longer that 1 month in the new gen of consoles....heres hoping anyway
I used to play poker online and one of my favourite phrases from back when I used to play was "Haters are always gonna hate" - It is especially true of us brits....we don't like big successful companies and microsoft are seen as the big bad boys here while Sony seem to get some sort of "free ride" in that department....no idea why as they are a Big bad company who are as quick to crush the little guy as any other out there...I have no time for the fanboy stuff from either camp. I just want my next console to 1. Be as cheap as poss. 2. Have great games. 3. Work without needing resoldered or any other stupid annoying shit that plagued BOTH of the last consoles.

[Goldberg]

Another saying "Don't hate the player, hate the game".

That's all that is been done here, the game is been played.

[dannyboy]

Like I said previously, I think MS are looking to the future. You buy a game at retail on disc, once you get it home it installs to your console and the cloud. Once you want to sell this game, you have to take it to a participating retailer, who will then scan this and it will then delete from your system at home. This is why the 24 hour online checks are in place. They are leaving it up to third party publishers to allow resale or whether to charge a fee etc

IMO third party publishers could request a cut when it's sold on at retail. So for example you take the game to Blockbusters, they give you £15 for it. Of this £15, £3 will go to the third party publisher. But what about all the eBay sales etc? Will they incorporate a system where the customer can select that they are selling the game?

Sony on the other hand, you can buy and sell and trade first party games how you want. They are leaving it up to third party publishers to do what they want. They may opt for an online pass for online games, much like the current gen system. Because the PS4 can be used offline, there are no checks Sony's end, so an online pass system is probably the most reasonable solution for third party publishers.

[Mr.James]

I hope that's the case to be honest. A discless system would rock! No more scratched or lost discs. Reduced loading times. mmmmm....

It's not something I would like at all to be honest. I look after my discs and mainly buy second hand. Mainly because my life's so busy by time I get round to playing games they're usually pretty old... I bought Bioshock 2 the other day lmao.

The reaction wasn't a surprise to [Yusuf] Mehdi, though. In fact, he said a lot of the way people have responded to Microsoft's moves was "kind of as we expected." But the implication of his statements in an in-depth interview with Ars Technica was that this temporary confusion and discomfort among the audience would be worth it as gamers and consumers adjust to a console world without game discs.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/0...game-policies/

Now I can't find anything that explicitly states that this is discless (on lunch at work so don't have time) but they suggest that once you have purchased a game and linked it to a live account you can download the 'cloud' game and play if on a friend's xbox at their house. That would suggest the disc isn't required. Why download the game if you have to take the disc round? You could just install from that.

EDIT: Oh and plus they've stated that one of the requirements is that you must install all the game on the hard drive.

[Geko]

I can afford the console. I can afford new games. But.... I don't like to be dictated to. Too much controlling from these people we are giving money to. What happened to a free market?

[crazyal]

For me it is also about tightening their grip on restrictions - the constant 24 hour access is to to try and thwart hacking. The can dress that bullshit up any way they want.

But more importantly, they stop offline play if not connected. Too much control in my opinion. They can fuck off, it's PS4 for me all the way by the looks of things.

[Sanj[UK]]

Further clarification on Sony's DRM policies: No more online pass

Last night Sony made a big point of its no-DRM policies for PlayStation 4 -- including putting up a playful video featuring two of its executives, Adam Boyes and Shuhei Yoshida, which you can see above.

SCEA CEO Jack Tretton's announcement of its DRM-free policies elicited a big cheer at its press conference last night.

However, details that have flowed out today to the press have confused the situation somewhat, with Tretton saying third parties can implement DRM. Other sites have reported that online passes -- consumable one-time codes to enable online play -- will be available for PS4.

Gamasutra was able to speak to Scott Rohde, software product development head for Sony Worldwide Studios America to gain further clarity on the matter:

We've already come right out and said we're not going to allow online pass. And the word "allow" is key there. Specifically with online, with PS+ requiring a charge to play online, we would not want any publisher [to charge.]

In general, we're all businesses. Sony or Microsoft is never going to be able to tell EA or Activision exactly what they can do. What we like to say at PlayStation is that we set the precedent. The way we are approaching this is that we want this to be extremely consumer-friendly, extremely retailer-friendly, and extremely publisher-friendly. My personal opinion is that it's hard for me to believe that any major publisher is going to put an extra set of used DRM onto game titles because that wouldn't put them in a good spot, right?

His words imply the balancing act that the platform-holder is trying to maintain between its three core constituencies of retail, publisher, and consumer.

The PR person staffing the meeting went as far as to say "it's just like PS3."

"That's the easiest way to say it -- it's the same," replied Rohde. "It's just like it's always was, is the easiest way to say it. Better, in fact, because online pass, in the future we're going away from that." EA had already abandoned online passes, but Sony has continued to use them in 2013 titles for its existing platforms.

While online play is free on PS3 and Vita, on PS4 owners will be required to subscribe to its PlayStation Plus service to play online.

Referring to the reception to the news at the press conference last night, Rohde said, "In a way it's a little bit sad in that what we've been doing all along gets such a big cheer."

"That's just something that we've always wanted to do," says Rohde. "It's not a plan that changed based on what Microsoft has been saying over the past month or two. It's just, 'Oh, I guess we should emphasize this now,' because it's a serious point of advantage for us. So let's have a little fun with it, basically."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...nline_pass.php

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[Mr.James]

My near 80yo Dad started up the Xbox One/PS4 conversation with me today... Asked me if I'd seen either of them and told him I'd watched the presentations live on the Internet.

His second sentence was "Playstation's gonna kill the Xbox isn't it? £100 cheaper and you can play any games you can want"

If that's how the rest of Joe Public sees it then Xbox is in for a really rough ride.