Jamie Oliver!!!

[jaygo]

Now I do think he's a bit of a twat but coming out and saying what he has said is so fucking true especially in the catering industry.

Saying uk restaurants would close if it wasn't for migrants and that kids don't want to work


I myself have worked in it for the last 20 years and its just gettin worse with kids not wanting to learn or work but wanting paid the big bucks.

Lets see what happens to him now.

Full story here
http://news.sky.com/story/1133928/ja...workers-whinge


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[Over Carl]

The truth needs to be spoken. Many industries in this country would collapse if it wasn't for "those bloody foreigners nicking our jobs".

Anyone ever thought about the growing pensions problem? Workers coming here for a few years but then going back and never claiming a pension will help a touch towards this.

I love getting into discussions with idiots on this topic as their arguments don't really stand up too well.

[burner1]

I've often thought if I could choose a career all over again, then working in kitchens would be up there. Saying that, I wouldn't tolerate having some self obsessed egomaniacal chef throwing insults at me.

[akimba]

If the migrants weren't here then the 17-25 year olds would pick up the slack but at the mo they are getting beaten to the punch and now its becoming a culture and the new phrase of "Job Snobbery" is being banded about.

[Over Carl]

Thing is when I was young I realised despite my numerous talents I had to work hard for fuck all pay doing shitty jobs because that's how the game works.

However these days even semi literate kids often think they are above a lot of work.

This could open up another debate - I partially consider schools to be at blame with the whole "it's the taking part that counts" mentality. Life should be about striving to achieve.

[Goldberg]

When I was at Primary school all those moons ago, I remember been explicitly told to avoid certain professions.
It is those profession that some of my friends/family are now earning mega bucks in!

I agree with this 'Job Snobbery' jibe. We cannot get the young ones into jobs to work their way up because they believe they should be running the show just for having a degree with the ink still wet.
Then what happens further down the line is people who want to work are classed as been 'too old'.

[DavidF]

Don't really know how to think about this to be fair. On one hand I think he has probably been taken out of context, selective editing of an interview he gave in a different newspaper has been coupled together with a magazine interview. it seems pretty apparent that this has been a stitch up job done on him. BUT on the other hand even if he uttered the sentence that started all the furore yesterday (Something along the lines of poor people don't help themselves by buying ready meals and big tv's instead of fresh food) then he is a bit of a "tit".
Now today we have this about the young not wanting to put in the hours ect ect. Is he claiming this is across the board ? If he is again he is talking through his backside. If he is implying that all teens/young people have no work ethic then I for one disagree...maybe he should look at his interview techniques. If he is paying the going rate and not just using cheap labour for the sake of exploitation or even worse paying under the min wage (which imho is not the same as a living wage) then he is in as good a position as anybody to inform us how it is on the shop floor.
The flip side is WHY say it in an interview ? He must know his wealth ect insulates him and his family from the struggles of the very people who he criticises. It is for sure a PR disaster. Maybe he has upset the wrong politicians and they have got their editor mates to stitch him up. Dont know what to think really.
Plenty of young british out there prepared to a hard days graft. Give them hope and a challenge and they will give you effort back in spades. As for the lazy....well thats the fault of everyone from parents,teachers and government IMHO....they combined should be stamping all over this sort of culture.

[flumperino]

In my view the problem here is not UK staff, or immigrant staff, it's the employers. Some immigrant workers are willing to put up with more shit/poor working environments/breaking employment laws, than UK workers, and so they are the ones that get employed. It's not about Uk workers being lazy, it's about the companies taking advantage of people who perhaps don't understand the full extent of their rights, or maybe have more to lose and so will put up with more.

[Zippeyrude]

shitty work has always existed and always will

ive done my share when i needed too

the old defence of oh its the immigrants that lower the standards as theyll take any job os just bollocks. the reality is that many have a much more positive work ethic than the british who are used to getting it all for free.

fuck em, anyone who cant be bothered to work.

bring in more immigrants who want to work i say.

[DavidF]

In my view the problem here is not UK staff, or immigrant staff, it's the employers. Some immigrant workers are willing to put up with more shit/poor working environments/breaking employment laws, than UK workers, and so they are the ones that get employed. It's not about Uk workers being lazy, it's about the companies taking advantage of people who perhaps don't understand the full extent of their rights, or maybe have more to lose and so will put up with more.

Kind of my inner thoughts too. Put much better than I could/did.

[jaygo]

When I was a commis chef (entry level) there was no minimum wage and I earned £6500 per annum
I worked 48 hrs a week for this and could live on it.
Bring things bang up to date. I employ a commis chef pay minimum wage as they have no skills, training or knowledge this is all taught on the job.
Minimum wage is shit I agree but you can live on it as long as you try not to live beyond your means. I went through 6 commis in a 9 month period at one place because them and there mummies and daddies felt they where working too hard.
They where doing 8 hour days 5 over 7 and getting a 30 minute break due to there age and eu working time directive enforced by the company I worked for.
This is just unheard of in a catering environment.
Chefs have and always will work long hours for shit money it just the way it is.


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[DavidF]

We have all been young and with few exceptions were working for shit money. My average in my 1st years as an apprentice electrician was £0.90 per hour which worked out to be about £5 for a "full" week. Bugger that I thought so when offered (after I became "useful" say 3 months in) I worked all overtime coming my way. Regular 7 day weeks and 3 of them 12 hour shifts....sent my wages soaring to £70 and I was happy as a sandboy. Never worked so bloody hard either. Even as a young qualified electrician I worked long hours usually based around a standard 50 hours over 5 days or 70 hours if I was doing weekends.
I dont work anything like that these days...no need dont want to ect ect value my work/life balance. My old man always told me you work to live not live to work. Anyway just pointing out we all done it. BUT again the only reason I done it was because there was an end goal...the payoff when I qualified ect. I still think my labour was exploited though and I still don't like to see it happen.

[Over Carl]

My first job in '95 I was doing 12 hour night shifts on the weekend at a cd factory putting cd's into boxes. I was 15 so couldn't even legally work then - the place was well dodgy and most of the other people were happily working off the books as they were signing on/illegals.

I would finish school and chill out for an hour or two on Friday, then straight to work 7pm -7am, some weeks I would get a bit of kip during the daytime then another 7-7 Saturday night. By the time I totally gave up around 17, I could and sometimes did operate the cd pressing and printing equipment unassisted, and also most weeks after the Friday night shift I would be straight back to school to play for our rugby first XV, then I could go home to sleep.

Oh, forgot to mention I went to a private school so it wasn't even typical for most of my peers to have jobs. I remember starting to get jealous of some of them getting more pocket money than I could dream of. By the end of sixth form with my side jobs I was pulling in more money weekly even than the most well off kids received as pocket money.

I'm not saying kids today will not work at any cost but you don't see that kind of dedication/effort these days. I bet loads of members here could tell stories like or worse than mine - I don't think I'm a special example but I think times (or people) have changed.

[Geko]

If there were no immigrants here accepting of the shit wage or poor conditions, then employers would have to improve pay and working conditions to attract staff. So although he is correct, the real winners are the shareholders and employers. The losers being the workers, both migrant and locals.

[super mike]

I agree with this 'Job Snobbery' jibe. We cannot get the young ones into jobs to work their way up because they believe they should be running the show just for having a degree with the ink still wet.

I agree with this, there is a much larger sense of entitlement (especially amongst 18-25 yr olds) than there should be. I believe a lot of this is because of the push from mid-late 90s to get everyone a degree and push them through university instead of it being 'ok' for those not gifted in academia (or who just didn't want to) to get a trade/use a different route to do their chosen profession.
It's because of this 'sense of entitlement' that I disagree with the point above by Akimba, I don't think the holes would be filled if a large proportion of the immigrant workforce were to just up and leave, I think that many people believe that a lot of jobs are beneath them and/or aren't willing to learn the required skillset.

This isn't just for those working for shitty employers who abuse them and the employment laws, of course this is wrong and the employers need to be held to account; but in my opinion the work ethic of many (not all!) people in my age group is fucking dire.

Mike - Aged 24 3/4

[DavidF]

The slack would/could be taken up by the locals/natives IF a few things happened. 1. Benefits for that age group scrapped apart from sick and housing and council tax assistance. (Remember Blair promised Work,Education,Training for EVERY 16yo...just an extension of that. 2. Students encouraged to work during their time in further education. 3. Employers fined into oblivion if caught paying below min wage and also for employing illegals.
I also agree that if you need someone to work 100 hours a week that means you have 2 jobs going at 50 hours per week each...not rocket science.
Also the other deterrent is the amount of time it takes to reinstate benefits after a period of employment....in the age of computer tech there is absolutely no need for this to be the case...it could be made so benefits are reinstated after 1 day the tech is there just the will is not.

[{{909}}]

they should just cut benefits to anyone under 20 so they either get a job or live with their parents. They also need to stop people being able to live on benefits, ie for years at a time.

I'll be honest, I had a long spell where I just lived on the dole, mainly because I had bought so much shit during my first job that I didnt really NEED money. It's a piece of cake to just blag the fortnightly signing checks as long as you dont go marching into the job centre with your jeans round your ass acting like a fucking prick and with little pressure I just coasted along.

The UK is just too fucking soft.

[macmilm]

Was on it for a few months myself and was shocked at how easy some of em take the piss... you could easily identify by site the long term dole dossers and I could hear the bullshit excuses they were giving and shrugged shoulders and 'whatevers'.. they still got a stamp in their book though and just told to "try a bit harder".. see you in 2 weeks e.t.c

Shockingly poor

[Itsme]

well maybe if we stopped giving benefits away too freely then people would be forced to look for work.
But flip the coin and you will see there is no jobs for the youngsters of today.
Even for those who want to work.

So we cant complain that they wont take work when there is no work for them.

[blacksheep]

If there were no immigrants here accepting of the shit wage or poor conditions, then employers would have to improve pay and working conditions to attract staff. So although he is correct, the real winners are the shareholders and employers. The losers being the workers, both migrant and locals.

Not necessarily as the cost would be passed on down the chain - would people go out for as many meals/have as many takeaways if they cost 20% more?