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    DF Founder Raptor's Avatar
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    BBC News Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    All hospitals in England will provide "a truly seven-day NHS" by 2020 under a future Conservative government, David Cameron has said.
    At the party's spring forum, Mr Cameron said that more hospitals must provide top-level treatment at the weekend, starting with emergency care.
    In a wide-ranging speech, he said his party's message to various sections of the population was: "We're with you."
    Labour said Tory plans for "extreme" spending cuts threatened the NHS.
    It has put the health service at the forefront of its own election campaign, with leader Ed Miliband promising on Friday to cap the amount of profit private firms can make from the NHS in England.



    Analysis

    By Ben Wright, BBC political correspondent
    This spring forum is about fighting back against Labour on the NHS.
    Polls show a clear, large consistent lead for Ed Miliband's party on the NHS. It is the foundation stone of Labour's campaign.
    But the Conservatives are desperate to chip away at it with promises of protected real-terms increases in funding and an extra £2bn a year.
    The Conservatives are committing to providing full weekend hospital care in England - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    The big question of course is, "Where will the money come from?", but this is about politics.
    This is an attempt to try to neutralise the NHS and enable the Conservatives to return to what they want to be talking about - the economy.


    'Properly staffed'

    Speaking at the forum in Manchester, Mr Cameron warned that figures showed patients were "more likely to die" if they were admitted at weekends.
    According to the Conservatives, official studies suggest mortality rates for those admitted on Saturdays and Sundays are 11% and 16% higher respectively than for those admitted on Wednesdays.

    This is at best an empty pledge and at worst shameless political game-playingDr Mark Porter, British Medical Association chairman
    "For years it's been too hard to access the NHS out of hours. But illness doesn't respect working hours. Heart attacks, major accidents, babies - these things don't just come from nine to five," Mr Cameron said.
    At weekends, he said, "some of the resources are not up and running. The key decision-makers aren't always there.
    "With a future Conservative government, we would have a truly seven-day NHS.
    "Already millions more people can see a GP seven days a week but by 2020 I want this for everyone, with hospitals properly staffed especially for urgent and emergency care, so that everyone will have access to the NHS services they need seven days a week by 2020 - the first country in the world to make this happen."
    'Financial distress'

    During his speech, Mr Cameron also reiterated a number of election campaign pledges, including:

    • No tax on the first £12,500 of earnings


    • No 40p rate until earnings reach £50,000


    • The creation of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    • The building of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    • [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] being made available


    • A referendum on [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Andy Burnham, Labour's shadow health secretary, said the plans were not credible without investment in extra NHS staff.
    "With the NHS in increasing financial distress, David Cameron must set out clearly how it will be paid for," he said.
    The Liberal Democrats said NHS England already had plans to open hospitals and GP surgeries seven days a week, while UKIP said the Tories had "degenerated the NHS beyond all recognition" during the last five years in government.
    Dr Mark Porter, chairman of the British Medical Association, said that the Conservatives' funding commitment was not even enough to maintain existing services, and that a funding gap of up to £30bn a year was predicted to open up.
    He said: "Without a detailed, fully-costed plan to provide the staff and resources needed to deliver more seven-day services, this is at best an empty pledge and at worst shameless political game-playing with the NHS ahead of the election."
    'Efficiency changes'

    The Conservatives have pledged to guarantee a real-term increase in funding for the NHS during the next Parliament, extending the ring-fence in place for the past five years. Labour has said it will spend £2.5bn more than its opponents.

    Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt said government reforms of the NHS were saving £1.5bn a year but that the NHS "will need more money".
    He added that the NHS's own sums suggested the predicted £30bn annual shortfall could be "reduced with efficiency changes, and we're backing that plan".
    New clinical standards set out in 2013 require hospitals to provide seven-day access to diagnostic tests, such as X-rays, ultrasound, MRI scans and pathology, as well as providing access to multi-disciplinary teams, which include expert nurses and physiotherapists.
    In its blueprint for services over the next five years, published last October, NHS England said hospital patients should have access to seven-day services by 2020 - "where this makes a clinical difference to outcomes".

  2. #2
    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    So why the fuck hasn't he done it in the last 5 years?

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    beansontoast (29th March 2015), EvilBoB (29th March 2015) 


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    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2 View Post
    So why the fuck hasn't he done it in the last 5 years?
    Because the staff and hospitals are struggling now, mate of mine who is a doctor said the Tories have really fucked it in the last 5 years and say's most of this pressure on the A&E is the result of closing so many walk in centers.

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    Rick Sanchez (29th March 2015) 


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    DF Admin 4me2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Bouncer View Post
    Because the staff and hospitals are struggling now, mate of mine who is a doctor said the Tories have really fucked it in the last 5 years and say's most of this pressure on the A&E is the result of closing so many walk in centers.
    Yeh, I was rather sarcastically getting at the Tory cop out campaign of still blaming the last govt for all failings. If drives me mad to still see them doing that after being in power for the last five years. Also still claiming the last govt caused the recession when in fact it was the banks and it was a world recession.

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    DF PiMP katana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Bouncer View Post
    Because the staff and hospitals are struggling now, mate of mine who is a doctor said the Tories have really fucked it in the last 5 years and say's most of this pressure on the A&E is the result of closing so many walk in centers.
    From other in the NHS, so many managers to increase efficiency.... I think that this is being used to brow beat the NHS to private hands. The look it is so much better, like the trains were supposed to be. Reduce spending and investment then private take over and things get better with investment. Already cancer care is being privatised for 10 years, in a northern region, yet there was greater furore for clarkson not having his contract renewed for abuse of a member of staff.

    We seem to blame foreigners coming in stealing jobs and benefits over the reality.

  6. #6
    DF PiMP katana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by 4me2 View Post
    Yeh, I was rather sarcastically getting at the Tory cop out campaign of still blaming the last govt for all failings. If drives me mad to still see them doing that after being in power for the last five years. Also still claiming the last govt caused the recession when in fact it was the banks and it was a world recession.
    Ah yes the Labour spending boom...on schools and reducing class sizes.

    Have you read the precis of what happened to the bankers in Iceland?

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    DF Jedi DavidF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Anyone voting for that shower on the back of their NHS "reform" deserve everything they get. 7 day NHS....try getting the basics right first.

  8. #8
    DF Jedi DavidF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    He added that the NHS's own sums suggested the predicted £30bn annual shortfall could be "reduced with efficiency changes, and we're backing that plan".
    Now I agree with this.....but it is never the unwanted and largely unneeded middle management that get the chop.
    Manager gets a memo saying you are loosing 10% of your budget, so he gets his p.a. to write to the middle manages p.a to arrange a meeting regarding how we can save 10%. Middle manager and his p.a turn up and say well we can cut out the use of one bed per ward, make each nurse oversee 1 more patient per hour and cut the cleaners hours by a third.......there ya go boys jobs a goodun and we all keep our jobs.
    Both of the big two just appear to throw cash at the issue without tackling the real issues. History shows us that Labour do a better job of frontline nhs than the tories do. Infact I would venture that the tories are down right bad when it comes to NHS.

    @Raptor (As you now live in the USA) How would you rate the system over there ? Does it cost a person more if they are ill than it would if that same person was born and lived in the UK....What im trying to get at is how much as a % of your income would say a chest infection cost you over there as opposed to the same condition over here...as we know over here we pay a bit more tax to get our "free" healthcare.
    It is probably a difficult question to answer...I would imagine (correct me if I am wrong) that it is far more expensive to be long term ill over there but may well be cheaper for a short term illness/cut/bump bruise ect. Would you agree with that ?

    Thanks to DavidF

    Bald Bouncer (29th March 2015) 


  9. #9
    DF VIP Member Bald Bouncer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidF View Post
    @Raptor (As you now live in the USA) How would you rate the system over there ? Does it cost a person more if they are ill than it would if that same person was born and lived in the UK....What im trying to get at is how much as a % of your income would say a chest infection cost you over there as opposed to the same condition over here...as we know over here we pay a bit more tax to get our "free" healthcare.
    It is probably a difficult question to answer...I would imagine (correct me if I am wrong) that it is far more expensive to be long term ill over there but may well be cheaper for a short term illness/cut/bump bruise ect. Would you agree with that ?
    My father spent the last years of his life in the US and he used to say how cancer survival rates there were misleading as a lot of people make a life choice on their survival chances and finances, if they have a good survival chance and the finances they get treatment but many don't as they either can't afford it/have no medical insurance/insurance won't pay or have the finances but the chances of survival are so low they decide the cost is not worth the reward meaning they will often leave nothing to their children. This means that a lot of the cancer treated is the most treatable and distorts the cancer survival rate which is only based on cancer that is treated.

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  10. #10
    DF Founder Raptor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidF View Post
    @Raptor (As you now live in the USA) How would you rate the system over there ? Does it cost a person more if they are ill than it would if that same person was born and lived in the UK....What im trying to get at is how much as a % of your income would say a chest infection cost you over there as opposed to the same condition over here...as we know over here we pay a bit more tax to get our "free" healthcare.
    It is probably a difficult question to answer...I would imagine (correct me if I am wrong) that it is far more expensive to be long term ill over there but may well be cheaper for a short term illness/cut/bump bruise ect. Would you agree with that ?
    It used to be different before the Affordable Care act (Obamacare) where you could be denied healthcare completely if you had a pre-existing condition, or go bankrupt or lose your home - worst system i've ever experienced (it cost us $26,000 just in fees to give birth to our daughter). Current insurance costs (and i'm talking basic insurance) is about $640 per month with $9000 a year deductible for a family of 4. The care itself is on par with the NHS - so the next time anyone knocks the NHS - thank your lucky stars.

    2 Thanks given to Raptor

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  11. #11
    DF Rookie newbie2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    I can't see how in an age of growing migration figures and one where the nation lives longer that any party could ever fund the NHS to the standard it requires without putting up taxes considerably or by changing the funding model.

    I believe the basic care package should come from taxes (National insurance in the main) but then there should be a wider insurance policy type requirement on people so that any additional care is funded by that. Taking into consideration though learnings from other countries like the USA and Australia on suitable routes.

    There should also be reform of the general medical council or whatever they are called these days, whereby less clinical trials are required and hospitals can use a variety of drugs not only those on the approved lists.

    I heard a number of instances where cheaper drugs that are available in other countries that are not used in the UK, these are made by the same companies and have the same structure as those that have passed clinical trials but they are not put forward by the companies for trials as that would just eat into the profit from the drugs they have approved. I appreciate that have to recover the R&D costs on he first drugs but it should not be that other countries are having access to practically the same drug but cheaper.

    I can't see how 7 days availability is even possible having had a pretty mild winter and a crisis in the NHS, lets get the basic fundamentals working first.

    Like the above I do believe there are too many layers of management in the NHS and budgets in some parts are spent to, so as not to lose them rather than being spent on the requirements, (I know someone whom was an intern in the department of health and they told me that was teh case).

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    DF Jedi DavidF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
    It used to be different before the Affordable Care act (Obamacare) where you could be denied healthcare completely if you had a pre-existing condition, or go bankrupt or lose your home - worst system i've ever experienced (it cost us $26,000 just in fees to give birth to our daughter). Current insurance costs (and i'm talking basic insurance) is about $640 per month with $9000 a year deductible for a family of 4. The care itself is on par with the NHS - so the next time anyone knocks the NHS - thank your lucky stars.
    Thanks for the input. It is good to hear from someone who has experienced both sides of the pond at working age. I was sort of wondering if overall you would say it costs an average person more as a working age adult via insurance rather than the UK tax system. I think your figures answer that question easily. $26,000 to have a child......great form of birth control lol. Just one last thing if you don't mind - would you say you pay lots less tax overall to make up for the fact that you need medical insurance ect ? The main reason im asking you/anyone state side is that I think the Conservative vision is based on what happens in the US....I don't think New Labour are that far behind.
    We could draw parallels with the states all day long as we now effectively have workfare in the UK which has been credited with social and economic problems in the US.....I think it is heading for the same problems over here and yet we still seem to want to follow the same path.

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    DF Jedi DavidF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Quote Originally Posted by newbie2 View Post
    I can't see how in an age of growing migration figures and one where the nation lives longer that any party could ever fund the NHS to the standard it requires without putting up taxes considerably or by changing the funding model.

    I believe the basic care package should come from taxes (National insurance in the main) but then there should be a wider insurance policy type requirement on people so that any additional care is funded by that. Taking into consideration though learnings from other countries like the USA and Australia on suitable routes.

    There should also be reform of the general medical council or whatever they are called these days, whereby less clinical trials are required and hospitals can use a variety of drugs not only those on the approved lists.

    I heard a number of instances where cheaper drugs that are available in other countries that are not used in the UK, these are made by the same companies and have the same structure as those that have passed clinical trials but they are not put forward by the companies for trials as that would just eat into the profit from the drugs they have approved. I appreciate that have to recover the R&D costs on he first drugs but it should not be that other countries are having access to practically the same drug but cheaper.

    I can't see how 7 days availability is even possible having had a pretty mild winter and a crisis in the NHS, lets get the basic fundamentals working first.

    Like the above I do believe there are too many layers of management in the NHS and budgets in some parts are spent to, so as not to lose them rather than being spent on the requirements, (I know someone whom was an intern in the department of health and they told me that was teh case).
    Did you read raptors post....he is experiencing us healthcare. In a nutshell it is more expensive for what amounts to be the same quality. As soon as you let private insurance companies into the game you get small print....which can mean "tough luck" if you have not got the cash.
    As for cheaper drugs...some of the big drugs companies supply drugs at a much cheaper rate to poorer countries. This is "sponsored" by the richer countries paying more to balance the books. Got to please the share holders lol.
    As for shorter drugs trials....I take it you would be quite happy to be 1st in the queue ?

  14. #14
    DF Rookie newbie2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cameron promises seven-day NHS

    Well as for cheaper drugs, the very point I was saying is in the news again today.
    The same drug proven to work but being blocked for trials by the drug companies to protect the profit on current drugs. I appreciate they have massive R&D costs and shareholders but it is us that end up paying.

    i also do fully understand the private model in the US is causing massive issues, however I also understand from colleagues that Australia have a private model that is nowhere near as expensive. I profess I don't understand all the differences between each model but it can work.

    if i don't drink and I don't smoke and run a few miles a week, I might get cancer and it will cost a fortune to cure but I won't suck up health care costs on obesity or smoking related diseases so why should the health pay for those that abuse their own Body.
    I am sure many other examples.

    they could put up the cost of prescriptions as most do not anywhere near cover the cost of the treatment.


    There is no free dental care for the majority in the UK and no free eye tests, even if you use a NHS dentist you have to pay for the pleasure, we accept that so why can that not work for all GP visits etc.

    So yes full privatisation will never be a winner but changes to the funding model can and have worked in other countries and even in the UK in other health care areas.

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