Should the UK remain part of the EU under the current rules (before re-negotiation).

[Bald Bouncer]

https://www.facebook.com/leaveeuoffi...3606348070940/

Found this interesting about when Norway voted to leave in 1994.

I wasn't aware they were ever a member so how could they vote to leave? correct me if I am wrong

[hoponbaby]

I wasn't aware they were ever a member so how could they vote to leave? correct me if I am wrong

Ok, voted not to join - haven't watched all of it but similar scare tactics presumably.

[hoponbaby]

As things currently stand, it is more than easy enough for any company to get rid of any employee. All the legal protections we think we have can be totally disregarded by an instrument known as a compromise agreement. Admittedly this isn't in widespread use but that concept seems to totally undermine the rest of employment law. However there are things that are in common use such as zero hours contracts as we were discussing, or for example making people re-interview or have to accept new contracts. This is all with the EU watching over us. Without the EU, it's only going to get worse.

An employer can't enforce a compromise agreement - it's precisely that, a compromise, where an employer can effectively buy off the employee their right to go to a tribunal. The employee has no requirement to accept and the employer has to pay for the employee to have independent legal advice about whether to accept it.

Edit: Forgot to answer one tiny thing in particular: I believe many years ago people were given jobs, and would often stay with the same firm for very long periods, if not until retirement. I could be wrong about this as I wasn't alive then, but that is the impression I get. These days companies seem to expect total loyalty from their staff, while returning no loyalty back to them whatsoever. I would be most grateful if you can explain why you think a worker shouldn't take up a better job offer, especially in our current climate.

No problem with employees taking up a better job offer, the majority of people work to live and have to do what is right for them. Don't you think the same should apply to the employer?

[billynoguts]

Has anyone changed their mind after any of the points that have been made on the forum? I personally haven't but find all the scaremongering in the news either for or against (mainly to stay in) pretty boring and very similar to the arguments that were passed around for us to join the Euro!

[Lestronics]

No I haven't changed my mind, some interesting points have been made for and against, but it's still out for me ! And judging by the poll a large percent of the members here that voted have chosen the out option, it wouldn't surprise me that come the Day that even if there was an overwhelming vote for out, it will be somehow changed to an in vote ! I don't trust that smarmy slimey bastard Cameron ............

Regards

[jw_2000_uk]

Not being a massive follower of politics, is there still a chance, in this day and age.

That it could be rigged regardless?

[billynoguts]

Not being a massive follower of politics, is there still a chance, in this day and age.

That it could be rigged regardless?

Possibility! They could always make us vote till they got the right answer?

[WRATH OF BOD]

the news last night now saying if we leave the EU the average home owners home will de value by an average of £57K, how the fuck did they work that out, more scare mongering by the looks of it.

[ss30]

I think some polititions must be making a shit load of money by us being in the EU that's why they are making up shit to scare us to vote to stay in

[billynoguts]

Destruction of the NHS is what will happen if the trans Atlantic trade agreement happens. It is so corrupt that they won't let us know what is actually being agreed! The main point to it is that a corporation will be able to take a government to court for loss of earnings over a rule that disadvantages them in the market. I bet the cig companies can't wait for that to happen. I think the vote in general should be more about being independent than being part of a big boys/girls club that is an anachronism at best! And if it's so good for us to be in they will want us back sooner rather than later.

[Bald Bouncer]

I think some polititions must be making a shit load of money by us being in the EU that's why they are making up shit to scare us to vote to stay in

And some politicians must be due to make a shit load of money by us voting to leave and making up shit to scare us to vote out, the worst and most telling thing to come from this for me is neither side will concede any point the other makes this not only shows the dishonesty of all involved but is intellectually dishonest, insulting to the masses, misleading and making it near impossible for most people to make an informed decision most basing their opinion on outrageous exaggeration, scare tactics and lies.

[flumperino]

...making it near impossible for most people to make an informed decision most basing their opinion on outrageous exaggeration, scare tactics and lies.

Unfortunately, I think this one sentence sums up the entire referendum campaign.

[Mule]

The leave campaign TV slot shown today is just weird. Making out that leaving the EU will suddenly mean a much improved NHS with loads more hospitals!

Still, it's a clever way to get idiots on their side.

[CzarJunkie]

And some politicians must be due to make a shit load of money by us voting to leave and making up shit to scare us to vote out, the worst and most telling thing to come from this for me is neither side will concede any point the other makes this not only shows the dishonesty of all involved but is intellectually dishonest, insulting to the masses, misleading and making it near impossible for most people to make an informed decision most basing their opinion on outrageous exaggeration, scare tactics and lies.

This is why I find it almost impossible to engage with politics or politicians today. It's the same reason I don't have a Twitter or FB account. No one is interested in the truth anymore. Everything has to be taken to extremes just to get heard above the rest of the noise. The Internet is a wonderful thing, and it's given me more than I could ever give back. But it's also made sensible discourse impossible. The Brexit debate is similar to the US Primaries, total and utter lunacy wins the day.

[Bald Bouncer]

The leave campaign TV slot shown today is just weird. Making out that leaving the EU will suddenly mean a much improved NHS with loads more hospitals!

Still, it's a clever way to get idiots on their side.

Seems to me both sides are coming out with the most outrageously unbelievable bollox they can think of but really what can you expect with both the in and out campaigns being headed by Tories a party who used the slogan "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour." but I think you are right they seem to think the balance of the vote now lies with swinging the idiots.

[piggzy]

Tories a party who used the slogan "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour." .

Fuck NO! When did they use that slogan or are you generalising ??

Fuck me that is bad politics. Sadly it would get them votes though.

[Bald Bouncer]

Fuck NO! When did they use that slogan or are you generalising ??

Fuck me that is bad politics. Sadly it would get them votes though.

---

Elected MP for Smethwick

Labour's victory in the 1964 election had been predicted, and Patrick Gordon Walker, who had been Shadow Foreign Secretary for 18 months, was expected to hold on to his seat. Instead, Peter Griffiths gained the seat for the Conservatives on a 7% swing in a county borough had the highest percentage of recent immigrants to England. Racial discrimination was common in the constituency and nationally; the local Labour club operated a colour bar.

In what Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson later described as an "utterly squalid" campaign, the Conservatives used the slogan "If you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour". Although Griffiths himself did not coin the phrase or approve its use, he refused to disown it. "I would not condemn any man who said that", The Times quoted him as saying. "I regard it as a a manifestation of popular feeling". He denied that there was any "resentment in Smethwick on the grounds of race or colour".

Griffiths' defeat of Gordon Walker resulted in Harold Wilson claiming in the House of Commons that Griffiths should "serve his term here as a parliamentary leper". Conservatives urged the Speaker, Harry Hylton-Foster, to force Wilson to withdraw the comment. While the Speaker objected to such language, he refused to censure the Prime Minister, and order in the Commons chamber was not restored for ten minutes. In his maiden speech in the Commons, Griffiths pointed out the problems faced by local industry and drew attention to the fact that 4,000 families were awaiting local authority accommodation. However, Griffiths remained an alderman in Smethwick until 1966. He both supported and arranged for Smethwick council to purchase a row of houses with the intention of letting them exclusively to white families. The government's Housing minister, Richard Crossman, was able to block this proposal by refusing the council permission to borrow the money required.

Griffiths was defeated by the actor and Labour candidate Andrew Faulds in the 1966 general election. Griffiths wrote his own account of his election in 1964. In A Question of Colour (1966), he asserted that he had "no colour prejudice". In his opinion, South Africa was "a model of Parliamentary democracy" and that "Apartheid, if it could be separated from racialism, could well be an alternative to integration". Griffiths also blamed immigration from the Caribbean for the spread of disease.

---

I heard this quote repeated many many times in my youth but it seems now they tend to disguise their racism better

[piggzy]

PMSL. What a cunt.

[piggzy]

An interesting video I just watched (it wont let me link it here for some reason - google is your friend)

A quote from the European Commission President JUNKER tells EU Parliament, QUOTE IN HIS OWN WORDS: "WE NEED BRITAIN, PERSONALLY I DON'T THINK BRITAIN NEEDS THE EUROPEAN UNION"!!!

He made this quote on camera last October before the referendum was even announced. Interesting coming from someone who really should know.

He of course did a complete U Turn after the referendum announcement

[beaconboy]

just as an aside ...i work half a mile from Smethwick and that town is approx 70-80% Asian population now .There are numerous temples within a 1 mile radius and the high street is mostly Asian shops ..I have been racially abused by them more than once on my way home for daring to honk my horn at them for just stopping their car in the middle of the road to have a chat with their mate on the pavement